01-20-2016, 08:45 AM
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#641
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Norm!
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Frankly I think the worst of the worst is Ceci, the man is a idiot, he comes across as unprepared at the best of times, and he doesn't seem to want to listen.
I would say that Notley should be looking at a serious cabinet shuffle already because the underlying feeling is that the energy minister, Finance, and jobs are all in over their heads and floundering badly.
But if she does a shuffle we'll be left with even worse option in place.
If this government was a hockey team, they'd be the Oilers, little skill, no depth and uncoachable.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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01-20-2016, 08:48 AM
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#642
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Norm!
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Reading that article, it sounds like the lawyers for Ontario were embarrassed or didn't do their homework.
Quote:
Perhaps Alberta’s government was given bad advice. Rumours have been floating around in the media that Ontario imposes similar taxes on Alberta craft brewers’ products. In fact, the crown’s lawyers argued as much opposing Steam Whistle’s injunction. But this claim is false. And all you need to do is talk to the LCBO to get the facts straight.
Ontario does not impose a protectionist tax on beer. Regardless of where you brew your beer in Canada, or the rest of the world, you will pay the same fees as an Ontario brewer does if you want your product available in Ontario. Do Ontario brewers enjoy other advantages? Yes, they do. But the salient point is that Ontario imposes no tax similar to Alberta’s protectionist tax.
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__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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01-20-2016, 08:48 AM
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#643
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Crash and Bang Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelBridgeman
the carbon tax is already a PST in disguise....
so ya if they add in a PST - final nail
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I guess we disagree. I dont think the NDP loses any votes they havent already lost with a PST. If anything they would increase the number of potential voters because alot of people voting PC previously thought there should have been a PST along time ago.
The time of using Resource Revenues to pay for yearly budget items needs to end. The government needs to get into a position where at the very least non 1 time infrastructure costs are 100% paid for by income/sales tax and not resource revenues.
For a government to have to rely on commodity forecasting for their budget, like WTF who are we, Iran, Saudi, Kuwait.
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01-20-2016, 08:51 AM
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#644
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavvy
Ceci is starting to annoy me however, we need to be careful in over pushing small risks as then we are not allowing for new ideas and innovation and we will surely fail as a province.
Politicians are expected to try new ideas which have manageable risks.
Putting on a tax to out of province breweries ended up hurting jobs in Alberta. This isn't good, and maybe it is time to end the policy. However, is this only short term? Will this create a market where Albertians will invest in new brewers in Alberta and create more jobs then those lost? Investment takes time to react to market conditions. The long game may not be there yet.
Then there is the court case, which may make everything a moot point.
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This would have only made sense if it was imposed on Brewery's that have no Alberta presence at all. Instead it ended up kicking Alberta jobs in the nuts.
But at the end of the day the pure out of province beers are usually more expensive anyways mainly due to transport costs, so Alberta based beers should be able to thrive without government intervention.
When you impose an unconstitutional tax and then run to court with a fallacy you're embarrassing yourself.
Lawyer - "You're honor, we're just imposing something similar to what Ontario does with non ontario based beer"
Judge - "Yeah no they don't what else do you have"
Lawyer shuffling his feet and staring at his shoelaces
Lawyer "Nothing"
Opposition lawyers cracking beers - "Boolya"
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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01-20-2016, 08:56 AM
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#645
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Self Imposed Exile
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
When you impose an unconstitutional tax and then run to court with a fallacy you're embarrassing yourself.
Lawyer - "You're honor, we're just imposing something similar to what Ontario does with non ontario based beer"
Judge - "Yeah no they don't what else do you have"
Lawyer shuffling his feet and staring at his shoelaces
Lawyer "Nothing"
Opposition lawyers cracking beers - "Boolya"
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interesting post considering you quoted my post and I specifically stated that the court case may make my post a moot point??
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01-20-2016, 08:56 AM
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#646
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by temple5
I guess we disagree. I dont think the NDP loses any votes they havent already lost with a PST. If anything they would increase the number of potential voters because alot of people voting PC previously thought there should have been a PST along time ago.
The time of using Resource Revenues to pay for yearly budget items needs to end. The government needs to get into a position where at the very least non 1 time infrastructure costs are 100% paid for by income/sales tax and not resource revenues.
For a government to have to rely on commodity forecasting for their budget, like WTF who are we, Iran, Saudi, Kuwait.
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Yeah, I think that you're mis-reading the mood here.
If they pack a consumer tax, on top of a carbon tax (non voluntary consumer tax), on top of shuffling the tax structure, all within the first year of this government, the voters are going to get pinched, and they're going to rage.
The NDP really had one choice, a carbon tax, or a PST. Plus Notley came out against a PST.
Again, you can't tax your way out of a bad economy.
Plus PST's and Carbon taxes usually tend to hurt lower and middle income taxpayers more then anyone else.
Maybe if they would have made their budget with realistic numbers especially on commodities like Oil Prices, instead of numbers based on copious amounts of fairy dust and Bolivian dancing powder their budget would have actually made sense.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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01-20-2016, 08:57 AM
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#647
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by temple5
I guess we disagree. I dont think the NDP loses any votes they havent already lost with a PST. If anything they would increase the number of potential voters because alot of people voting PC previously thought there should have been a PST along time ago.
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And those people already jumped to the NDP. There are very few people left who would look at yet another new NDP tax and think "You know what? I like paying more. I'm going to support the party that is taking more and more of my paycheque, even as that same party is eroding confidence in my province and negatively impacting its economic future."
There is a reason why the NDP is down about 11 points since the election. And according to threehundredeight.com, the December polls had them in danger of dropping below the PCs into third place.
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01-20-2016, 10:43 AM
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#648
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
There is a reason why the NDP is down about 11 points since the election. And according to threehundredeight.com, the December polls had them in danger of dropping below the PCs into third place.
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Yes, there is a reason, and it's largely because the opposition and its supporters in big business have harped on and on about how the fix Alberta finds itself in is all the NDP's fault, in spite of it having little to nothing to do with them. You might recognize that strategy if you've paid any attention to American politics since Obama was elected - disagree with anything the enemy does, blame everything that happens on them, and make vague promises to fix everything without offering any concrete ideas.
It's going to work, too. The PCs and Wildrose will merge, win the next election handily, and the dynasty they're going to create will make the previous one seem short.
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01-20-2016, 10:55 AM
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#649
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert
You might recognize that strategy if you've paid any attention to American politics since Obama was elected - disagree with anything the enemy does, blame everything that happens on them, and make vague promises to fix everything without offering any concrete ideas.
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In short, the exact same thing the NDP ran with to win last year?
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01-20-2016, 11:01 AM
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#651
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert
Yes, there is a reason, and it's largely because the opposition and its supporters in big business have harped on and on about how the fix Alberta finds itself in is all the NDP's fault, in spite of it having little to nothing to do with them. You might recognize that strategy if you've paid any attention to American politics since Obama was elected - disagree with anything the enemy does, blame everything that happens on them, and make vague promises to fix everything without offering any concrete ideas.
It's going to work, too. The PCs and Wildrose will merge, win the next election handily, and the dynasty they're going to create will make the previous one seem short.
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Wow.
Yes, the price of oil is what it is.
However, how the government acts, within the environment it finds itself, is what is judge-able, and for what they will, and should be held accountable.
And implementing multiple sources of significant tax increases, while being otherwise indecisive and paralyzed, in an environment where the economy is/would be plunging regardless, and their leadership when desperately needed is non-existent, is in fact 'their fault'.
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01-20-2016, 11:06 AM
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#652
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Frankly I think the worst of the worst is Ceci, the man is a idiot, he comes across as unprepared at the best of times, and he doesn't seem to want to listen.
I would say that Notley should be looking at a serious cabinet shuffle already because the underlying feeling is that the energy minister, Finance, and jobs are all in over their heads and floundering badly.
But if she does a shuffle we'll be left with even worse option in place.
If this government was a hockey team, they'd be the Oilers, little skill, no depth and uncoachable.
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I know Ceci personally. A good, smart and caring individual. He is definitely not an idiot. Also, he is definitely in a wrong post though. He should have taken the social services portfolio. The fact that he'd been given one of the two toughest posts (other being health) speaks about how unqualified the NDP roster was and still is. But we all know that. Notley can't shuffle the cabinet, she's got nobody.
One of the biggest budget shocks for NDP is not the oil. They knew about oil prices plunging. It's the income tax. I heard that they are getting $1B less income tax than they had estimated. This is soooo typical of a bureaucratic budgeting process. Someone says: "income tax was X. Let's increase it by Y% and budget X+Y%". Ooops, but the income dropped so high, there is no increase at all. OK, but instead of trying to help the business in the tough time, they think of taxing it more and add uncertainty by delaying royalty review and budget. The reality is, nobody in this government has a good understanding of how the business works and they didn't care to ask for advice. Ideology first. A recipe for disaster.
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"An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think." Georg Hegel
“To generalize is to be an idiot.” William Blake
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01-20-2016, 11:24 AM
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#653
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainYooh
I know Ceci personally. A good, smart and caring individual. He is definitely not an idiot. Also, he is definitely in a wrong post though. He should have taken the social services portfolio. The fact that he'd been given one of the two toughest posts (other being health) speaks about how unqualified the NDP roster was and still is. But we all know that. Notley can't shuffle the cabinet, she's got nobody.
One of the biggest budget shocks for NDP is not the oil. They knew about oil prices plunging. It's the income tax. I heard that they are getting $1B less income tax than they had estimated. This is soooo typical of a bureaucratic budgeting process. Someone says: "income tax was X. Let's increase it by Y% and budget X+Y%". Ooops, but the income dropped so high, there is no increase at all. OK, but instead of trying to help the business in the tough time, they think of taxing it more and add uncertainty by delaying royalty review and budget. The reality is, nobody in this government has a good understanding of how the business works and they didn't care to ask for advice. Ideology first. A recipe for disaster.
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This is something that concerned me right from the beginning. They took tax revenue for granted and do not understand the idea of a declining balance taxation.
It is what it is and it will always be that and if we need more we raise the rates.
It is the biggest concern to have when dealing with people who operate primarily with ideologies, because to have basically assumed the tax revenue was a constant shows an inherent incomprehension of the absolute most basic and fundamental concepts on which our society operates.
Basically, they approach the concept of money is if it was magic. Its always there and you can spend as much of it as you like on whatever.
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This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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01-20-2016, 11:24 AM
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#654
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Norm!
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Sorry I'll take back the idiot part of Ceci, but he is woefully under qualified and doesn't seem to have the core understanding or the ability to do this job.
you're second paragraph is key, btw, especially in the end.
If you look at the people that they put into key advisor roles, they've got too many anti-pipeliners, environmentalists and union hacks and shop stewards, who are not able to give this government any sound advice.
Notley also seems to have a strong inability to listen or deal with criticism.
You can bet that the Bill 6 video of her basically laughing at the ranchers at a NDP gathering is going to be played a lot in an election campaign.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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01-20-2016, 11:32 AM
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#655
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert
Yes, there is a reason, and it's largely because the opposition and its supporters in big business have harped on and on about how the fix Alberta finds itself in is all the NDP's fault, in spite of it having little to nothing to do with them. You might recognize that strategy if you've paid any attention to American politics since Obama was elected - disagree with anything the enemy does, blame everything that happens on them, and make vague promises to fix everything without offering any concrete ideas.
It's going to work, too. The PCs and Wildrose will merge, win the next election handily, and the dynasty they're going to create will make the previous one seem short.
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This is hilarious, the NDP was doing the same thing when they were in opposition. But I'm assuming you saw it as the plucky small party fighting against the big business conservatives, and it was heroic.
You know that this is what the opposition does, that they are the critics of the government. What are they supposed to do? Cheerleader, 2-4-6-8 who do we appreciate Rachel Rachel Rachel?
this is pretty much whining at its best, what your doing.
first of all, yes we know that Oil pricing has had a massive effect on this province.
But the continued delays of the Royalty Review. Holding off on a budget til after the federal election, and having our MLA's traveling to other provinces to campaign for the NDP. The poor sell job and implementation of Bill 6. The pushing off of the opening of the legislature. The bizarre budget with over optimistic oil price expectations in it. The taxation increases. the impending Carbon tax that's going straight to our utility bills, but is going straight into general revenues. Notley's caustic simmer down comments?
Of course nobody is feeling confident in this government, and we've seen investments and business activity slide because of it in concert with the falling Oil Prices.
Yeah, oil prices aren't their fault, but they're doing very little to aid the situation, and seem to be digging a deeper hole.
But its all the fault of big business, they should just run status quo because Rachel and the NDP says so.
Basically now, the NDP is so fricken paralyzed by what they've done that they're holding everything up.
But that's not their fault, if only the mean opposition would get on board with the NDP vision, everyone would be alright.
Come on man.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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01-20-2016, 11:49 AM
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#656
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
This is hilarious, the NDP was doing the same thing when they were in opposition. But I'm assuming you saw it as the plucky small party fighting against the big business conservatives, and it was heroic.
You know that this is what the opposition does, that they are the critics of the government. What are they supposed to do? Cheerleader, 2-4-6-8 who do we appreciate Rachel Rachel Rachel?
this is pretty much whining at its best, what your doing.
first of all, yes we know that Oil pricing has had a massive effect on this province.
But the continued delays of the Royalty Review. Holding off on a budget til after the federal election, and having our MLA's traveling to other provinces to campaign for the NDP. The poor sell job and implementation of Bill 6. The pushing off of the opening of the legislature. The bizarre budget with over optimistic oil price expectations in it. The taxation increases. the impending Carbon tax that's going straight to our utility bills, but is going straight into general revenues. Notley's caustic simmer down comments?
Of course nobody is feeling confident in this government, and we've seen investments and business activity slide because of it in concert with the falling Oil Prices.
Yeah, oil prices aren't their fault, but they're doing very little to aid the situation, and seem to be digging a deeper hole.
But its all the fault of big business, they should just run status quo because Rachel and the NDP says so.
Basically now, the NDP is so fricken paralyzed by what they've done that they're holding everything up.
But that's not their fault, if only the mean opposition would get on board with the NDP vision, everyone would be alright.
Come on man.
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I think his point is that, like in the country to our south, the bolded point is being glossed over and there are people, even smart people, who legitimately think what is happening is ALL the NDP's fault. Like the provincial government of a small, oil-producing nation is somehow plummeting the oil price. There are people who have said this to me, no joke.
There are plenty of things wrong with what the NDP is doing, but pushing the point that they are causing this, is misinformation at best. All the articles against NDP mention it, but seem to glaze over it like a footnote and that is just wrong. It is the single largest factor in this crash. Yes, the NDP is not helping, but they are like 5% of the problem, maybe. No provincial government would be able to do anything that battles what is going on in any significant way.
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01-20-2016, 11:55 AM
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#657
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Feb 2010
Exp:  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
This is something that concerned me right from the beginning. They took tax revenue for granted and do not understand the idea of a declining balance taxation.
It is what it is and it will always be that and if we need more we raise the rates.
It is the biggest concern to have when dealing with people who operate primarily with ideologies, because to have basically assumed the tax revenue was a constant shows an inherent incomprehension of the absolute most basic and fundamental concepts on which our society operates.
Basically, they approach the concept of money is if it was magic. Its always there and you can spend as much of it as you like on whatever.
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I'm still amazed by the number of people that argued with me on this point right after the election. Nobody seemed to believe that all the $150k/yr incomes were driven by bonuses and overtime thanks to the boom, now most of those people are either laid off or back to making $60-70k/yr and the "tax the rich" crowd is about to get a rude awakening as to how few truly wealthy and/or high income earners there are in Alberta.
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01-20-2016, 12:33 PM
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#658
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
This is something that concerned me right from the beginning. They took tax revenue for granted and do not understand the idea of a declining balance taxation.
It is what it is and it will always be that and if we need more we raise the rates.
It is the biggest concern to have when dealing with people who operate primarily with ideologies, because to have basically assumed the tax revenue was a constant shows an inherent incomprehension of the absolute most basic and fundamental concepts on which our society operates.
Basically, they approach the concept of money is if it was magic. Its always there and you can spend as much of it as you like on whatever.
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Soon. Don't forget that soon we will be getting our "fair share" of all that shiny and infinitely growing oil & gas monies with this royalty review results. Soon!
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01-20-2016, 12:36 PM
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#659
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Springfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chemgear
Soon. Don't forget that soon we will be getting our "fair share" of all that shiny and infinitely growing oil & gas monies with this royalty review results. Soon!
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Also known as shooting yourself in the foot!. "Let's raise the royalties and we'll get more money to spend. What? Investment will dry up and we will have less to spend? Ok, let's leave them the same. What? We won't have any money to spend on all the schemes we promised? Better delay the review another month and hope oil prices rebound. Then we will totally be able to get more money from the evil Oil and Gas companies!"
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01-20-2016, 12:47 PM
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#660
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Norm!
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Wasn't that the prevalent issue with the Liberal's we'll make the rich pay their fair share and use it for middle class tax cuts.
What do you mean there aren't enough rich people for the math to work?
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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