Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Brewmaster

Had an interesting thought today after looking at how Burke managed to land both Sedins at 2nd and 3rd after entering the draft with only a 3rd overall.

What if the Flames traded away next years 1st round pick plus another player or pick to land an additional top 5 pick in this years draft? If Feaster truly believes this team will be able to turn it around and push for playoffs next season, this could be a an opportunity to grab 2 potential franchise players. The big negative would be next season, if the Flames are tanking again it would be really tough on the fans as there would be no early pick reward for finishing at the bottom.

Would a team like Tampa or Carolina make a trade like that seeing that the Flames are likely favorites for 30th place in 2013/14? In 1999 Vancouver traded McCabe and their 2000 1st rounder for the 4th overall pick, which enabled them to draft both Sedin brothers.

Trading next years first would be a major mistake. We're going to be just as bad next year. Any moves up should be done by packaging our late firsts and a roster player, and if we can't do that, just make the picks and pick high again next year.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

I would rather go offense first at the top of this draft. D men take usually 2-3 more years to develop then a forward would and I think there is pressure to develop something that the fans can get excited about. As for team need the Flames are lacking at both positions in the system, however with Giordano and Brodie being young (enough) NHLers they should be able to contribute for the foreseeable future. I really like the College FA route to get D men, they have 2-3 more years of development and can jump right into the NHL game (Dekeyster and Schultz).

I would love to see the Flames draft this way:
3rd overall- Nathan Mackinnon (C)/ Aleks Barkov (C)
18th overall (St Louis)- Rasmus Ristolainen (D) 6'3 200+lbs
26th overall (Pittsburgh)- Kerby Rychel (LW) or Valentine Zykov (RW)

I also think it would be cool if we won the draft lottery, and Colorado got 3rd, and wanted Seth Jones desperately, and we traded 1st overall to Colorado for 3rd overall + there 2nd round pick. Pick up Robert Hagg/Mirco Mueller/Niclas Petan

Note* I used Craigs list as of March 3rd, the only reach from what I mentioned above would be Kerby Rychel at 26.
Mackinnon ranked 3rd, Barkov 4th, Ristolainen 20th, Rychel 22nd, Zykov 29th, Hagg 30th, Petan 28th, Mueller 35th.

If we are trading the first overall for the third overall, I would expect more than a second rounder coming back

[Brewmaster]

Originally Posted by nik-

Trading next years first would be a major mistake. We're going to be just as bad next year. Any moves up should be done by packaging our late firsts and a roster player, and if we can't do that, just make the picks and pick high again next year.

It's definitely high risk given what the team will look like heading into next season. I just don't see a team trading a top 5 pick away in this draft for 2 late first rounders unless you add a real significant piece. Moving out next years pick on the other hand might have more value to teams given the state the Flames are in. You would have to be confident that a top 5 pick at this years draft would be better than a top 5 in next years draft to even think about making this trade from a Flames standpoint.

[albertGQ]

So how much better is Jones during his draft year compared to Hedman and Larson?

I'm leering about taking a Dmen with our first pick.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

So how much better is Jones during his draft year compared to Hedman and Larson?

I'm leering about taking a Dmen with our first pick.

I've heard best D prospect in 10 years. So, better.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Brewmaster

It's definitely high risk given what the team will look like heading into next season. I just don't see a team trading a top 5 pick away in this draft for 2 late first rounders unless you add a real significant piece. Moving out next years pick on the other hand might have more value to teams given the state the Flames are in. You would have to be confident that a top 5 pick at this years draft would be better than a top 5 in next years draft to even think about making this trade from a Flames standpoint.

Except no reasonable person would be confident in that, it would be arrogant. If no team will do it for the late firsts + you just don't do it. I would love to get the 5/6 pick to get Lindholm/Monahan, but not at the cost of next years first.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Brewmaster

It's definitely high risk given what the team will look like heading into next season. I just don't see a team trading a top 5 pick away in this draft for 2 late first rounders unless you add a real significant piece. Moving out next years pick on the other hand might have more value to teams given the state the Flames are in. You would have to be confident that a top 5 pick at this years draft would be better than a top 5 in next years draft to even think about making this trade from a Flames standpoint.

Agreed. The only way we can get two top 8 picks this year is to either deal our 1st rounder next year or to package up one of Baertschi/Gaudreau with St. Louis's pick and maybe more.

It's an unlikely but tantalizing scenario.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by bax

If we are trading the first overall for the third overall, I would expect more than a second rounder coming back

The only time I think this has happened is when Columbus trade up 2 picks to get Nash. I think Lehtonen went second and Bouwmeester 3rd and that is who Florida wanted all along.

To make this trade the only thing given was the right for Florida to trade draft positions in the following year, then had to give up a 3rd and a 4th round pick to protect Atlanta from picking Bouwmeester.

I doubt you would get more for dropping 2 spots, considering you are adding the 31st-33rd pick in the draft.

I could see the Avs making this deal because lets face it their need is D not C (Stastny/Duchene/O'Reilly is pretty good), unless they decide to buy out Stastny.

I think Drouin would be there fall back but lets face it Colorado is desperate for that stud top pairing D man they tried to acquire in the St Louis trade (Erik Johnson).

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Brewmaster

It's definitely high risk given what the team will look like heading into next season. I just don't see a team trading a top 5 pick away in this draft for 2 late first rounders unless you add a real significant piece. Moving out next years pick on the other hand might have more value to teams given the state the Flames are in. You would have to be confident that a top 5 pick at this years draft would be better than a top 5 in next years draft to even think about making this trade from a Flames standpoint.

I don't like this idea at all considering the following:
1) Our goaltending is going to be in shambles next year. Kipper is expected to retire, Berra is signed but what can we expect, Ramo is not yet signed, but still unproven anyways, and we all know that a combination of Joey Mac+Danny Taylor is not the answer.
2) The Flames are the worst defensive team in the NHL this season so how will drafting Mackinnon+Drouin fix our defensive woes?

Thus I don't think it is reasonable to assume that the Flames will finish any better next year then they did this year. They are going to be about the same team as this year (+ a couple UFA's), less Bouw, Iggy and Kipper. Not a team that I would have confidence gambling a possible 1st overall pick on.

But that is just me.

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Agreed. The only way we can get two top 8 picks this year is to either deal our 1st rounder next year or to package up one of Baertschi/Gaudreau with St. Louis's pick and maybe more.

It's an unlikely but tantalizing scenario.

I think you do everything you can to get MacKinnon and Drouin at 2/3 assuming Jones goes at 1. Similar scenario to Burke getting Sedins. If you can build a forward group around those two and Backlund, Baertschi, Gaudreau (assuming none of those guys goes in moving up), then that is as good of a young group as you can hope for.

[kn]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Or another scenario. We end up in 3rd last but win the lottery. Flames like Jones well enough but really want that centre. We trade down with Colorado, Florida or Tampa Bay to end up with either MacKinnon or Barkov. Similar to Florida in the 2002 (trade down and draft Bouwmeester while Columbus drafts Nash) and 2003 (trade down to draft Horton while Pittsburgh drafts Fleury) drafts.

I remember hearing that Bouwmeester took that personally and never forgave Dudley for doing that. The idea is that if you really wanted me, you would have drafted me first overall.

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by kn

I remember hearing that Bouwmeester took that personally and never forgave Dudley for doing that. The idea is that if you really wanted me, you would have drafted me first overall.

Absolutely hilarious if true (which I highly doubt it is). Being a number one overall pick is about as useless of a title and distinction as there is. If you're good, you're good.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by kn

I remember hearing that Bouwmeester took that personally and never forgave Dudley for doing that. The idea is that if you really wanted me, you would have drafted me first overall.

LOL. Imagine how soft Bouwmeester would have been if he hadn't been playing with a chip on his shoulder the whole time. Turns out this version was actually "Angry Jay"...

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

I don't like this idea at all considering the following:
1) Our goaltending is going to be in shambles next year. Kipper is expected to retire, Berra is signed but what can we expect, Ramo is not yet signed, but still unproven anyways, and we all know that a combination of Joey Mac+Danny Taylor is not the answer.
2) The Flames are the worst defensive team in the NHL this season so how will drafting Mackinnon+Drouin fix our defensive woes?

Thus I don't think it is reasonable to assume that the Flames will finish any better next year then they did this year. They are going to be about the same team as this year (+ a couple UFA's), less Bouw, Iggy and Kipper. Not a team that I would have confidence gambling a possible 1st overall pick on.

But that is just me.

Yeah, the only way you can consider it is if you fire Hartley and bring in a lock-down defensive coach who can squeeze blood out of a stone. Lemaire/Tippett kind of coach. If we go into next season with a similar roster (+ a Weiss/Roy or whatever they'll overpay for on July 1) and Hartley we are almost a lock for bottom 3.

[kn]

Some thoughts after an hour of reading...

1) Jones is the BPA. If we're drafting first, we take him unless Colorado mortgages their future in exchange.

2) Barkov is very intriguing and I would be happy with either him or MacKinnon as our first choice. I think either of them will be in the starting lineup next year.

3) Drouin's skill and dynamism is hard to pass up. I still can't get the comparison to Pat Lafontaine and Denis Savard out of my head. Although he's listed as a LW, he's a converted center. If we're drafting fourth, he's a nice "consolation prize".

4) I read that Lindholm's shot and goal scoring are the main areas for development. That's not what I want to hear from a forward projected to go in the Top 5. Stay far away...

5) Monahan looks to be an all-round second-line center. He's got all the tools and would be an excellent selection.

6) It sounds like Ristolainen is the best defenceman next to Jones and seems NHL-ready. I doubt he'll be available with our second pick.

#1 - Jones
#2-3 - Barkov/MacKinnon
#4 - Drouin
#5 - Monahan
#6 - Ristolainen (a reach?)

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Yeah, the only way you can consider it is if you fire Hartley and bring in a lock-down defensive coach who can squeeze blood out of a stone. Lemaire/Tippett kind of coach. If we go into next season with a similar roster (+ a Weiss/Roy or whatever they'll overpay for on July 1) and Hartley we are almost a lock for bottom 3.

Keep picks and keep Hartley, that way wee can look to reunite the Reinhart brothers in 2014, Sam's draft year.

http://www.topnhlprospects.com/2014-...-10-prospects/

[timbit]

Originally Posted by kn

Some thoughts after an hour of reading...

1) Jones is the BPA. If we're drafting first, we take him unless Colorado mortgages their future in exchange.

2) Barkov is very intriguing and I would be happy with either him or MacKinnon as our first choice. I think either of them will be in the starting lineup next year.

3) Drouin's skill and dynamism is hard to pass up. I still can't get the comparison to Pat Lafontaine and Denis Savard out of my head. Although he's listed as a LW, he's a converted center. If we're drafting fourth, he's a nice "consolation prize".

4) I read that Lindholm's shot and goal scoring are the main areas for development. That's not what I want to hear from a forward projected to go in the Top 5. Stay far away...

5) Monahan looks to be an all-round second-line center. He's got all the tools and would be an excellent selection.

6) It sounds like Ristolainen is the best defenceman next to Jones and seems NHL-ready. I doubt he'll be available with our second pick.

#1 - Jones
#2-3 - Barkov/MacKinnon
#4 - Drouin
#5 - Monahan
#6 - Ristolainen (a reach?)

Where does Nurse fit in? He is a pretty attractive package on D.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Some notes from Mckeens and their march rankings.
http://www.mckeenshockey.com/draft-b...february-2013/

Frederik Gauthier



Josh Morrissey



Thescoutingreport view on top 60
http://www.thescoutingreport.org/wp-...0-Rankings.pdf

Fred Gauthier - C


Anthony Mantha - LW


Bo Horvart - C


Jason Dickinson


Jacob De La Rose - C


Connor Hurley - C (similar to Jankowski)


Anton Slepyshev - LW


Some interesting options available for sure.

Late to the party on this one but that's what a drive on the Coquihalla in April will do.

Anton Slepyshev - why did we not burn a 7th round pick on him? I get the KHL thing and our depth at LW but if you can get 1st round talent in the 7th round, why not take a flyer? Too often this happens (Tanner Pearson goes undrafted two drafts then is taken in 1st round last year). We need scouts to push for players like Slepyshev so we get immense talent in round 7 instead of these guys going back into the draft. It's outside the box thinking which should suit Feaster fine as he's not adverse to this (see best players outside NHL - Cervenka and best goalies outside NHL - Ramo, Berra for examples).

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by kn

Some thoughts after an hour of reading...

1) Jones is the BPA. If we're drafting first, we take him unless Colorado mortgages their future in exchange.

2) Barkov is very intriguing and I would be happy with either him or MacKinnon as our first choice. I think either of them will be in the starting lineup next year.

3) Drouin's skill and dynamism is hard to pass up. I still can't get the comparison to Pat Lafontaine and Denis Savard out of my head. Although he's listed as a LW, he's a converted center. If we're drafting fourth, he's a nice "consolation prize".

4) I read that Lindholm's shot and goal scoring are the main areas for development. That's not what I want to hear from a forward projected to go in the Top 5. Stay far away...

5) Monahan looks to be an all-round second-line center. He's got all the tools and would be an excellent selection.

6) It sounds like Ristolainen is the best defenceman next to Jones and seems NHL-ready. I doubt he'll be available with our second pick.

#1 - Jones
#2-3 - Barkov/MacKinnon
#4 - Drouin
#5 - Monahan
#6 - Ristolainen (a reach?)

Lindholm at #6 over Ristolainen - skilled forward trumps 2 way dman

Red line lists Jones/MacKinnon/Drouin as tier 1 talent, Barkov is 1a (notch below). Knock on Barkov is skating.

As tough as it is, you may have to stick with BPA and if it's Drouin, you take him. Would piss off this board but if you are getting an elite player over a great player, we can't afford to be picky given our situation.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by kn

4) I read that Lindholm's shot and goal scoring are the main areas for development. That's not what I want to hear from a forward projected to go in the Top 5. Stay far away...

Lindholm's shot isn't that great, but he's a great two way player with good passing skills, great skating, and physical play.

You hardly "stay far away"