[News] Friedman: Feaster/Flames are not going to blow it up - Page 33 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Phanuthier · 03-13-2013, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Yes never. Nice cherry picked stat. Conroy's best year in career that was completely on the back of Iginla's highest goal total and 2nd highest point season. Iginla propelled Conroy to those numbers and that's it.

I love Conny, but the fact he's the best centre we can think of that's every played with Iggy proves the point. He was a legit NHL #2 centre for some seasons, and a 3rd line centre for some as well. Basically a 2b centre is the best the Flames have ever given Iginla. Maybe that's the debatable, but what's not debatable is that Iginla has NEVER played with a legit #1, so the comment stands. Iginla has never played with a good centre.

oh and this is the post I am referencing. Langkow 2b... laugh. Conroy is a 2b center, Olli is a 1b center, Langkow is a 1b center (Langkow is a much better player then Olli despite "points")

EddyBeers · 03-13-2013, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Agreed Eddy. Not surprisingly, Iginla's best years came when he had a defensively responsible 2-way center on his line. And Calgary's best years (regular-season, that is) in Iggy's time were with Langkow.

How Langkow never got serious consideration for the Selke I will never know. He was not the best on the dot, but other than that he was one of the most complete players in hockey during his prime. At the absolute worst, over the three years in Phoenix and the first three in Calgary he would have been in the top 15 centers in the league when overall play is taken into consideration, IMHO.

Phanuthier · 03-13-2013, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

How Langkow never got serious consideration for the Selke I will never know. He was not the best on the dot, but other than that he was one of the most complete players in hockey during his prime. At the absolute worst, over the three years in Phoenix and the first three in Calgary he would have been in the top 15 centers in the league when overall play is taken into consideration, IMHO.

"at best 2b center" ...

dissentowner · 03-13-2013, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

oh and this is the post I am referencing. Langkow 2b... laugh. Conroy is a 2b center, Olli is a 1b center, Langkow is a 1b center (Langkow is a much better player then Olli despite "points")

At no time while he was a Flame did Olli produce like a 1b centre. The others I agree with.

Phanuthier · 03-13-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

At no time while he was a Flame did Olli produce like a 1b centre. The others I agree with.

I can't argue that... he did before, though. Since his arrival, he's been disappointing.

EddyBeers · 03-13-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

"at best 2b center" ...

If people want to see a guy who has never really played with great players take a look at Crosby. For most of his career his linemates have been Kunitz and Dupuis. While Kunitz is a damn good hockey player and is definitely underrated, and Dupuis is not terrible, it is not like Crosby is playing with two elite superstar players. There are a lot of players who do not get to play with elite players.

Iginla by and large (especially since the lockout) has usually played with first line players, not superstars but legitimate first line hockey players.

Phanuthier · 03-13-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

If people want to see a guy who has never really played with great players take a look at Crosby. For most of his career his linemates have been Kunitz and Dupuis. While Kunitz is a damn good hockey player and is definitely underrated, and Dupuis is not terrible, it is not like Crosby is playing with two elite superstar players. There are a lot of players who do not get to play with elite players.

Iginla by and large (especially since the lockout) has usually played with first line players, not superstars but legitimate first line hockey players.

Agreed. And even though Langkow wasn't Adam Oates in terms of passing. both Tanguay and Huselius were elite passers (arguably both were top 10 playmakers during Iginla's tenure) and set up Iginla for some pretty sweet plays from 2007-2010... we had a damn good team during those few years.

Flamenspiel · 03-13-2013, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

If people want to see a guy who has never really played with great players take a look at Crosby. For most of his career his linemates have been Kunitz and Dupuis. While Kunitz is a damn good hockey player and is definitely underrated, and Dupuis is not terrible, it is not like Crosby is playing with two elite superstar players. There are a lot of players who do not get to play with elite players.

Iginla by and large (especially since the lockout) has usually played with first line players, not superstars but legitimate first line hockey players.

Well i think you hit the nail on the head right there! If Dupuis and Kunitz do so well with Crosby, how well will Jerome Iginla do? The fact is when you assess Iginla, its not how much is he worth to the Flames, but how much is he worth to another team with a great center?

If you are Jay Feaster talking to Ray Shero the question should be: How much would you pay for a Stanley Cup?

Flash Walken · 03-13-2013, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Well i think you hit the nail on the head right there! If Dupuis and Kunitz do so well with Crosby, how well will Jerome Iginla do? The fact is when you assess Iginla its not much is he worth to the Flames, but how much is he worth to another team with a great center?

If your Jay Feaster talking to Ray Shero the question should be: How much would you pay for a Stanley Cup?

If Iginla is insistent on holding the puck in Pittsburgh like he is in Calgary, it's not going to work out well.

Ashasx · 03-13-2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If Iginla is insistent on holding the puck in Pittsburgh like he is in Calgary, it's not going to work out well.

Look at what Kunitz is doing with Crosby. Next you're going to say that Kunitz is better than Iginla.

It's unbelievable how this forum has demonized Iginla. When Iginla was playing with a 60+ point Langkow, he was putting up 85+ points, he did score 50 goals. He was considered a top 5 player in the league.

Why are we changing the past to meet your opinions?

Phanuthier · 03-13-2013, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Look at what Kunitz is doing with Crosby. Next you're going to say that Kunitz is better than Iginla.

It's unbelievable how this forum has demonized Iginla. When Iginla was playing with a 60+ point Langkow, he was putting up 85+ points, he did score 50 goals. He was considered a top 5 player in the league.

Why are we changing the past to meet your opinions?

What does sentence 1 have to do with sentence 2, what does paragraph 1 have to do with paragraph 2 and 3... etc... ?

Also, I am "demonizing" Iginla by saying Langkow is not "at best a 2b center" as well?

The Professor · 03-13-2013, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If Iginla is insistent on holding the puck in Pittsburgh like he is in Calgary, it's not going to work out well.

To me this has been the issue with Iginla for years, he needs someone on his line who can carry the puck into the zone.

Ollie was close, he actually was a north south player, but when he went Iggy's line, he tried to change his game to being a passer, which he ain't. Tanguay is a great passer, but not adept at carrying the puck into the zone. Which always leaves it up to Iggy - then if/when he gets in the zone, everyone is standing around staring at him, and there are no other dangerous players so opposing teams just put double coverage on Iggy. This is why Cammy sometimes works with Iginla, being it gives him a legitimate scoring threat.

EddyBeers · 03-13-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Look at what Kunitz is doing with Crosby. Next you're going to say that Kunitz is better than Iginla.

It's unbelievable how this forum has demonized Iginla. When Iginla was playing with a 60+ point Langkow, he was putting up 85+ points, he did score 50 goals. He was considered a top 5 player in the league.

Why are we changing the past to meet your opinions?

I am not demonizing him, I am just saying he played with damn good hockey players for the majority of his post lockout career. Even before that the Flames had Drury for a year who was an elite center and Savard who was an elite center. The idea that Iginla played with scrubs is revisionist history, for the majority of his career he played with guys who were top 20-25 at their respective positions in the NHL both before and after they played with Iginla.

Flash Walken · 03-13-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Look at what Kunitz is doing with Crosby. Next you're going to say that Kunitz is better than Iginla.

It's unbelievable how this forum has demonized Iginla. When Iginla was playing with a 60+ point Langkow, he was putting up 85+ points, he did score 50 goals. He was considered a top 5 player in the league.

Why are we changing the past to meet your opinions?

I don't think there's a player in the NHL this year that goes offside more than Iginla.

Ashasx · 03-13-2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't think there's a player in the NHL this year that goes offside more than Iginla.

Well, dammit, you've convinced me. Definitely an indicating stat of a bad player.

Your intuition is unmatched.

bubbsy · 03-13-2013, 11:17 AM

my thoughts on iginla's linemates is that yes, he's never played with a top flight, playmaking Center. Though his best years did come when he played with good 2 way centers like conroy/langkow.

Now, during his peak years, he did have very good quality playmakers on his line. Tanguay, and more so huselius, were absolutely DYNAMITE.

Enoch Root · 03-13-2013, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't think there's a player in the NHL this year that goes offside more than Iginla.

Just on the Flames, I would guess Glencross and Tanguay

Stay Golden · 03-13-2013, 11:18 AM

The Flames could go into the draft as a major player instead of the much debated trade Iggy/ Kipper approach.
Trading Iginla is not the be all end all how the Flames can rebuild.

If the Flames traded Bouwmeester, Tanguay, Cammy, Glencross, G oh oh, Babchuk, Sarich, Butler, Comeau.

They could go into the draft with 2 First round picks, 2 or 3 second round picks, an additional 5th, 6th or 7th.

There is more than one in the box solution. Question is are the Flames brass creative?
Bouwmeester will for sure get a 1st round pick.
Tangauy, Cammy, Glencross and Jio based on their production over the past 3 years are all 2/3rd round picks.
Butler 5th/6th
Comeau 7th
Sarich 7th

Are the Flames going to find a trade for all these players no, but they have to at least try and if the return is not there decide who to keep.
But this group is not working currently.
Feaster could even shop Cervenka if they wanted to. There are several teams that could get more out of him than the Flames. Gm's would recognize that.

Finish the dead season with multiple AHL call ups and do a long time evaluation of where these guys are for development.

Currently the Flames go into this draft with a
1st,3rd,4th,6th,7th. If this is not right post the correct numbers.

The Flames will go into the off season if they make Zero moves with 17m cap space they could go into the off-season with potentially 40m to spend and rebuild right away.

Flash Walken · 03-13-2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Just on the Flames, I would guess Glencross and Tanguay

No coincidence they're often on the same line?

Enoch Root · 03-13-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Well i think you hit the nail on the head right there! If Dupuis and Kunitz do so well with Crosby, how well will Jerome Iginla do? The fact is when you assess Iginla, its not how much is he worth to the Flames, but how much is he worth to another team with a great center?

If your Jay Feaster talking to Ray Shero the question should be: How much would you pay for a Stanley Cup?

Quoted for truth.

When evaluating players for trades, it's not what they are currently doing on their own team that matters, it's what the GM thinks the player can do on his team.

There is a very good chance that Iginla, playing with Crosby, is a 40+ goal guy. It also allows them to keep Neal with Malkin, giving them really solid two-line depth.