2012-2013 Toronto Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Johnson is your #1.

Maybe so. I only put Morrow at the #1 spot because right now because it's his spot to lose going into spring training.

I know Johnson is probably the better pitcher, though.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

It's too bad Terry Francona wasn't available, just to fire a shot at the Bosox.

I'm not sold on Melky for 8M/ although it solves that gaping blackhole that has been LF. A big part of Steroid usage is the (even false) confidence it brings from using.

Random thoughts: (haven't been this excited as a fan since...last season)

-Except Buerhle, none of our 4 starts have pitched in big games. How will they cope under the pressure (starting opening day) of being a favorite to win the AL East and go far into the post-season?
- The 2 season's past, we've heard this bullpen is solid, but is it? It hasn't pitched in meaningful games either.
- Will pushing Lind, Lawrie, Rasmus to the 6,7,8,9 spots in the order take the pressure off them and actually see them produce?
- Moises Sierra looked good in his short stint, is that it for him as a Jay with no room left?
- Jay-Rod? Gose, Lawrie for A-Rod?

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

It's too bad Terry Francona wasn't available, just to fire a shot at the Bosox.

I'm not sold on Melky for 8M/ although it solves that gaping blackhole that has been LF. A big part of Steroid usage is the (even false) confidence it brings from using.

Random thoughts: (haven't been this excited as a fan since...last season)

-Except Buerhle, none of our 4 starts have pitched in big games. How will they cope under the pressure (starting opening day) of being a favorite to win the AL East and go far into the post-season?
- The 2 season's past, we've heard this bullpen is solid, but is it? It hasn't pitched in meaningful games either.
- Will pushing Lind, Lawrie, Rasmus to the 6,7,8,9 spots in the order take the pressure off them and actually see them produce?
- Moises Sierra looked good in his short stint, is that it for him as a Jay with no room left?
- Jay-Rod? Gose, Lawrie for A-Rod?

I wouldn't give the yanks mike mccoy for A-Rod even if the Yanks paid his entire contract.

[The Big Chill]

All we need now is Manny Acta, Jonny Gomes, and Carlos V.

Jay-Rod? Seriously?

[Caged Great]

Also Sierra is more of a 4th at best type outfielder. Might eventually develop into Rajai Davis without the speed. Not an ideal every day guy.

We have a lot more guys with upside coming up behind him in a couple years, so by having Melky there you can then transition into the Gose/Davis/Smith/Alford/Anderson phase instead of a filler guy like Sierra. Also I would definitely trade him if he contributes anything positively towards getting a starter.

[nik-]

I would imagine that AA wouldn't want to torpedo his great week by trading for A-rod.

That's a really bad trade proposal.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

Random thoughts: (haven't been this excited as a fan since...last season)

-Except Buerhle, none of our 4 starts have pitched in big games. How will they cope under the pressure (starting opening day) of being a favorite to win the AL East and go far into the post-season?
- The 2 season's past, we've heard this bullpen is solid, but is it? It hasn't pitched in meaningful games either.
- Will pushing Lind, Lawrie, Rasmus to the 6,7,8,9 spots in the order take the pressure off them and actually see them produce?
- Moises Sierra looked good in his short stint, is that it for him as a Jay with no room left?
- Jay-Rod? Gose, Lawrie for A-Rod?

Just picking off a few things
-Who knows if the starters or BP can hold it down, but every player has played in high pressure situations. I don't put too much stock into complete meltdowns. If they do melt down, being on a playoff team, they're good enough to be traded anyway the next season, so I'm not too concerned.
-I really don't understand how Lind is even in the picture here. Granted we want a more powerful bat at 1st, but the guy is lazy and his play has proven it this past few years. I'd take the power deficit and just put Rajai there. Lind is a bum...let him work for it.
-Sierra, I don't care about. Future powerbat, but nothing else. Deal him, let him walk, who cares? No room for him on the team now or in the future with Gose up in 2014.
-I'm one of the people who still think A-Rod has a bit in the tank, but the issue with him is baseball is secondary in his life. He's made so much money, and cares more about his lifestyle than being a fierce competitor right now. There aren't many players I'd deal Lawrie for, given his position. Gose I'd be reluctant to deal because of his arm. I honestly think he's got the best OF arm in the league, and I'm in awe of that. A-Rod's contract has negative value at this point. NY's really the only place (or maybe LA), where his ego works with the team and city he's in. I don't think he'd fit in well over here.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by fleury

Just picking off a few things
-Who knows if the starters or BP can hold it down, but every player has played in high pressure situations. I don't put too much stock into complete meltdowns. If they do melt down, being on a playoff team, they're good enough to be traded anyway the next season, so I'm not too concerned.
-I really don't understand how Lind is even in the picture here. Granted we want a more powerful bat at 1st, but the guy is lazy and his play has proven it this past few years. I'd take the power deficit and just put Rajai there. Lind is a bum...let him work for it.
-Sierra, I don't care about. Future powerbat, but nothing else. Deal him, let him walk, who cares? No room for him on the team now or in the future with Gose up in 2014.
-I'm one of the people who still think A-Rod has a bit in the tank, but the issue with him is baseball is secondary in his life. He's made so much money, and cares more about his lifestyle than being a fierce competitor right now. There aren't many players I'd deal Lawrie for, given his position. Gose I'd be reluctant to deal because of his arm. I honestly think he's got the best OF arm in the league, and I'm in awe of that. A-Rod's contract has negative value at this point. NY's really the only place (or maybe LA), where his ego works with the team and city he's in. I don't think he'd fit in well over here.

I wouldn't have been able to type "Jay-Rod" on my keyboard a week ago, but its funny how this blockbuster deal has changed the complexion of our squad. Rumor had him going to Florida (if anywhere - before their firesale).

Scares/excites me to think what could happen if Steinbrenner called AA tomorrow with "we'll cover 1/2 his salary...."

Arod getting out of NY would do him good, getting back to baseball is what he needs. You can see how Bautista's leadership is prominent on this team, Lawrie made a lot of bone-headed plays this year....there won't be as much patience for his antics with a new manager and a "Win Now" mentality.

And since things have changed in the course of a week, were no longer dependant on youth, I'd call Cito Gaston to see if he wants to manage agan.

[TitovFTW]

[QUOTE=Where ru Chris O'Sullivan;3938690]

I'm not sold on Melky for 8M/ although it solves that gaping blackhole that has been LF. A big part of Steroid usage is the (even false) confidence it brings from using.

Even if he returns to his norm, 8 million is a more then fair and team friendly price. We have no idea how an extra dose of testosterone works, how it affected his play at all or any. Considering his power numbers went down, it's not the usual "he started hitting more homers".

Random thoughts: (haven't been this excited as a fan since...last season)

-Except Buerhle, none of our 4 starts have pitched in big games. How will they cope under the pressure (starting opening day) of being a favorite to win the AL East and go far into the post-season?

They're still not the favorite to win the AL East but I guess it's a fair point. Over a 162 game schedule that stuff would all work itself out however. These are still pitchers that have pitched in big games at one point in their career. If the last 5 years of MLB have taught us anything, it's that experience means little or nothing. David Price to Lincecum to Matt Moore, all were as fresh as rookies can be and came up huge in the post season.

- The 2 season's past, we've heard this bullpen is solid, but is it? It hasn't pitched in meaningful games either.

Bullpen pitching is a wildcard. The Jays did suffer considerable key injuries to their bullpen last season, especially their closer going down so early. Relief pitchers have a record of being tough to predict one year to the next. I think AA has created enough competition in the pen that the Jays will get a really good one, especially if Oliver comes back

- Will pushing Lind, Lawrie, Rasmus to the 6,7,8,9 spots in the order take the pressure off them and actually see them produce?

Let's not forget Bret Lawrie was playing in his first full season of MLB. The fact that he was able to give the Jays value through his defense and speed made it a good season for him. I view him much differently then I do Rasmus and Lind. Rasmus did have a great stretch there and then injuries hit. Not sure if they effected him at all or did he just regress to his norm. Adam Lind is not going to hit lefites at any spot in the lineup. The hope would be that he could at least hit RHP well and the Jays sign Gomes. Your point is a good one though, the Jays suddenly don't need to rely on these guys to be the 3rd or 4th best hitters, which is huge.

- Moises Sierra looked good in his short stint, is that it for him as a Jay with no room left?

He'll be back in AAA. No spot for him on this team but not the worst call up in the world

[TitovFTW]

And I realize he won championships which is great and all, although he had truly amazing teams to do so but Cito Gaston is the worst His last managerial stint could not have been any uglier from the lineups, to the bullpen to the fact that the players pretty much hated his guts by the end of it.

[TitovFTW]

one would think if Melky failed the test prior to the ASB, he would have stopped using. ASB to suspension he was .328/.387/.508 #bluejays

[TitovFTW]

Buster only tweeting today the Jays are close to announcing their manager, Jim Tracy and Jim Riggleman were two of the final names being discussed. Jim Tracy would be the worst decision imaginable.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

one would think if Melky failed the test prior to the ASB, he would have stopped using. ASB to suspension he was .328/.387/.508 #bluejays

The gains made aren't immediately lost, we're talking a 5 week period here, not months. To me this is almost like when Marchment became a Flame. You're going to cheer for your team, but you wish it didn't have this guy on it

[TitovFTW]

Originally Posted by nik-

The gains made aren't immediately lost, we're talking a 5 week period here, not months. To me this is almost like when Marchment became a Flame. You're going to cheer for your team, but you wish it didn't have this guy on it

People should be more outraged about the MVP winner who had a dangerous DUI charge and did much worst things off the field then someone using a drug.

[TitovFTW]

Rosenthal tweets that he talked to Riggleman's agent today and the Jays have not even contacted him, so hopefully that splashes a little cold water on Onley's tweet or makes it more likely Jim 'Worst manager in freaking baseball" Tracy will be the next manager of the Jays and Melky Cabrerra will lead the league in sac bunt attempts.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

People should be more outraged about the MVP winner who had a dangerous DUI charge and did much worst things off the field then someone using a drug.

He's not on my team and I'm not "outraged". I'd just prefer we didn't import guys fresh off a 50 game ban.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Maybe so. I only put Morrow at the #1 spot because right now because it's his spot to lose going into spring training.

I know Johnson is probably the better pitcher, though.

I appreciate your optimism about morrow but, Johnson is definitely your #1.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

Buster only tweeting today the Jays are close to announcing their manager, Jim Tracy and Jim Riggleman were two of the final names being discussed. Jim Tracy would be the worst decision imaginable.

jim tracy would be horrible. absolutel;y horrible. would fly against everything that's been done up to this point. keith law (i know) calls him one of the worst managers - ever. just would be a horrible choice.

[bluejays]

If it is Jim Tracy, what could be AA's reasoning from choosing him? I admit I don't know anything about the guy, but by the sounds of it he doesn't sound good.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by fleury

If it is Jim Tracy, what could be AA's reasoning from choosing him? I admit I don't know anything about the guy, but by the sounds of it he doesn't sound good.

recent e.g. - his math: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Frk2fKArg

with rockies wanted to limit the work on his bullpen. went with a 4-man rotation (interesting idea) but with a 75-pitch limit. not exactly going to limit the work on his bullpen...

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/42648
Pat (Denver)



Lost in the shuffle of Tracy's indefinite contract was the fact that O'Dowd announced it. Does that mean he's got an indefinite deal, too? With my favorite team heading down the dreadful path of 'grit over talent,' do I have any hope?
Klaw (1:28 PM)




I assume this means when O'Dowd eventually loses his job, Tracy does too. I can't believe ownership was comfortable with this. Tracy is the worst manager in the game right now, considering all aspects; I think he cost them a playoff berth in 2010 with his mismanaging. Why would Colorado commit to him long-term, even if it's just a 'handshake' deal?




http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat...ider-keith-law

Tyler (LA)
Have you done a column or podcast where you spelled out each of Jim Tracy's terrible decisions?
Klaw (2:00 PM)
No one wants to listen to a five-hour podcast.

Jim Tracy is not helping Ian Stewart
http://www.blakestreetbulletin.com/2...g-ian-stewart/

http://www.bloguin.com/theoutsidecor...ing-block.html
Tracy has been a disaster at the helm of this team, minus his miraculous 74-42 streak in 2009 that led the Rockies to a playoff berth. Since that run, his record has consistently submarined, bottoming out this year at 56-78. But GM Dan O'Dowd's edict of "manager for life" indicates that a change needs to be made past Tracy for this franchise if they want to contend any time in the future.

http://tracyhandshake.blogspot.ca/20...handshake.html
eith Law recently answered a question about Jim Tracy in an Insider chat:

Karl (Colorado Spgs.)

A local writer for the Denver Post said earlier this week that Tracy's strength is his in game management. After wiped the tears from my eyes from laughing so hard, I began to wonder what the writer would consider his weknesses if his strength was being the worst tactical manager in the game. Thoughts?
Klaw
(2:00 PM)


I really have no words for this.