If every parking space has an in use charger, it's probably going to exceed a building's power capacity. This is a future problem, but probably within 20 years, given the planning to get us off of gas.
If every parking space has an in use charger, it's probably going to exceed a building's power capacity. This is a future problem, but probably within 20 years, given the planning to get us off of gas.
But it is a now problem too, because if the only way apartments can support their tenants cars is by exceeding their power capacity, battery powered EVs may not be the correct bet.
Long term, I think the utility of hydrogen is going to win out. You can make a hydrogen airplane.
You can’t do that with batteries.
Here’s a fun number: 1kg of hydrogen stores 236 more times the energy than 1kg of lithium ion.
You can fuel a hydrogen car in them same amount of time as a gas one.
Supercharging takes a full episode of Breaking Bad, and it’s not even good for the one the plebs can afford.
So, any news on how people who don’t own homes are meant to operate an EV as a daily driver?
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Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda
Or those in condo buildings without any EV charging infrastructure
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Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers
….. they add them over time as a selling feature? Are these actual question marks from you two?
Time. Time is the answer.
The major way this is going to be accomplished is by providing DC fast charging stations at most places that people stop at. Run in to 7-11 for 5 minutes, charge 25% of your battery. Stop at the mall for an hour, car fully charged. Stop somewhere for 20 minutes, battery is at 80%
Condos and apartments don’t need charging stations fir each parking spot, they could probably get by by providing a couple fast charging stations. In about 5 years, condos and apartments will have to have this infrastructure if they want to attract people.
Upgrade how? More solar that only works during the day or more wind that only works when its windy?
This has been discussed at length here and just about every forum out there. Short answer is grid smoothing, charging off peak, battery storage. I think every new home built should have solar and battery storage, maybe not quite yet the technology is not mature enough. But in 5 years I can see it being cheap enough where it doesn't make sense not to do it.
I stand by my prediction that in 10 years we will have too much electricity, unless government stupidity steps in.
Hydrogen sounds like a great alternative, but it's got a whole host of challenges. So do batteries, but batteries were a lot easier to implement quickly. So here we are.
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As of now, i drive my car about once or twice a week. I would argue most people in inner city apartments buildings are similar.
For someone like me, fast charging and battery range are *largely* a minor inconvenience.
I know others who have an EV car and a gas powered car. The EV is for everyday use. Commute to work, drive to the store, etc. The gas powered car is secondary for longer trips or if the EV is in use or dead.
The vast majority of households have 2+ cars. why can't one of those be an EV? does a supply chain analyst commuting downtown from McKenzie towne really need a Ford F350 to go along with his/her spouse's Tahoe?
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This has been discussed at length here and just about every forum out there. Short answer is grid smoothing, charging off peak, battery storage. I think every new home built should have solar and battery storage, maybe not quite yet the technology is not mature enough. But in 5 years I can see it being cheap enough where it doesn't make sense not to do it.
I stand by my prediction that in 10 years we will have too much electricity, unless government stupidity steps in.
BTW I HATE ugly POS win turbines.
That's expensive and inefficient though. Grid scale power is by far the cheapest and easiest way to implement solar. Adding batteries and all the conversion equipment to each house is wasteful and expensive.
We really only need about 10% more generating capacity to take care of electric passenger vehicles, so generation isn't the colossal an issue to get over.
Hydrogen sounds like a great alternative, but it's got a whole host of challenges. So do batteries, but batteries were a lot easier to implement quickly. So here we are.
Hydrogen tank is essentially a battery and not an efficient one either in terms of space or energy. If we have excess electricity then I think it is a great way to store energy on a mass scale even when the efficiency is relatively poor. It is nearly 100% clean if atom splitting is done via electricity.
What doesn't make sense is producing, compressing into tanks, transporting, pumping into tanks again, pumping into the tank in your car. For giant ships and the like makes way more sense to me.
That's expensive and inefficient though. Grid scale power is by far the cheapest and easiest way to implement solar. Adding batteries and all the conversion equipment to each house is wasteful and expensive.
It is not efficient, true. But having decentralized power makes the grid way more resistant to going down especially in bad weather.
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We really only need about 10% more generating capacity to take care of electric passenger vehicles, so generation isn't the colossal an issue to get over.
Where do you get 10% from? Not saying that is wrong but seems low.
Hydrogen tank is essentially a battery and not an efficient one either in terms of space or energy. If we have excess electricity then I think it is a great way to store energy on a mass scale even when the efficiency is relatively poor. It is nearly 100% clean if atom splitting is done via electricity.
What doesn't make sense is producing, compressing into tanks, transporting, pumping into tanks again, pumping into the tank in your car. For giant ships and the like makes way more sense to me.
Yes, I think hydrogen is more suited to trucking and that sort of thing in the near term. Far better than loading a semi with massive batteries that take a lot of charge time, and mean you drag them around with you. Using electrolysis takes a lot of power though, so using it for a grid battery doesn't make much sense either.
It is not efficient, true. But having decentralized power makes the grid way more resistant to going down especially in bad weather.
Where do you get 10% from? Not saying that is wrong but seems low.
I was curious awhile ago so ran some numbers:
Spoiler!
Tesla model 3 efficiency 152Wh/km
Average km driven 15,200km
Total vehicles 3,611,205
Light Duty Vehicles ~ 3 million
Power generated in Alberta 81 TWh from 16 322 MW installed capacity
average Model 3 2310KWh per year
Goals:
light-duty vehicles sales per year
10% by 2025
30% by 2030
100% by 2040
usage x #vehicles x %ev = power required
2310 x 3,000,000 x 0.1 = 0.693TWh
2310 x 3,000,000 x 0.3 = 2.01TWh
2310 x 3,000,000 x 1 = 6.93TWh
Basically we generate 81TWh, and only need ~7TWh additional to cover standard passenger vehicles(if they are as efficent as a model 3, which I assumed would mostly be the case by 2030). We would need more for things like city buses, industrial vehicles etc. Like I said, just some rough numbers to show it isn't totally unattainable.
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Yes, I think hydrogen is more suited to trucking and that sort of thing in the near term. Far better than loading a semi with massive batteries that take a lot of charge time, and mean you drag them around with you.
You drag hydrogen tanks and fuel cell stack around as well, no free lunch.
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Using electrolysis takes a lot of power though, so using it for a grid battery doesn't make much sense either.
At a certain point it does if you have more daytime electricity than you can use. Also solar on every home solves the problem of where do you put giant solar farms.
A hydrogen tank for a semi is going to weigh a lot less than the batteries for one, though. Hydrogen filling stations at truck stops are an easier problem to solve than ones at every corner gas station. You also solve the issue of having tens or hundreds of trucks at a truck stop trying to charge, and the nuclear reactors you would need to power it!
I think rooftop solar should basically be a requirement for warehouses over a certain size. I'm far from convinced the costs for individual houses makes much sense.
Tesla model 3 efficiency 152Wh/km
Average km driven 15,200km
Total vehicles 3,611,205
Light Duty Vehicles ~ 3 million
Power generated in Alberta 81 TWh from 16 322 MW installed capacity
average Model 3 2310KWh per year
Goals:
light-duty vehicles sales per year
10% by 2025
30% by 2030
100% by 2040
usage x #vehicles x %ev = power required
2310 x 3,000,000 x 0.1 = 0.693TWh
2310 x 3,000,000 x 0.3 = 2.01TWh
2310 x 3,000,000 x 1 = 6.93TWh
Basically we generate 81TWh, and only need ~7TWh additional to cover standard passenger vehicles(if they are as efficent as a model 3, which I assumed would mostly be the case by 2030). We would need more for things like city buses, industrial vehicles etc. Like I said, just some rough numbers to show it isn't totally unattainable.
But our current electricity generation in Alberta is 43% coal and 49% natural gas for a total of 92% fossil fuels.
All is ok as long as our cars run on a battery?
What is really needed is a shift in power production but, unlike other provinces, we don't have any water so the only alternative is uranium like Ontario.
A hydrogen tank for a semi is going to weigh a lot less than the batteries for one, though.
Yep.
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Hydrogen filling stations at truck stops are an easier problem to solve than ones at every corner gas station. You also solve the issue of having tens or hundreds of trucks at a truck stop trying to charge, and the nuclear reactors you would need to power it!
The energy has to come from somewhere to make the hydrogen, which is a way less efficient method of using electricity to power a motor.
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I think rooftop solar should basically be a requirement for warehouses over a certain size. I'm far from convinced the costs for individual houses makes much sense.
It's not a great value proposition currently, in 5 years extrapolated it will. In 10 years solar and batteries will likely be 2x cheaper than we have now. At that point every other form of electricity generation will make no financial sense.
The energy has to come from somewhere to make the hydrogen, which is a way less efficient method of using electricity to power a motor.
It's not a great value proposition currently, in 5 years extrapolated it will. In 10 years solar and batteries will likely be 2x cheaper than we have now. At that point every other form of electricity generation will make no financial sense.
I'm not sure of that...but even then, it will always be cheaper to do grid scale solar and batteries, as opposed to indivdual units replicating all the controllers and such, plus the much higher install costs and installation compromises due to not being able to optimize placement. Land use is the biggest issue, but I'm sure there is enough around here to handle it.
