Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

People definitely do lose their minds when the CPC's membership does that sort of thing, though. There's inevitably a big long discussion about how "this is who the party truly is" and "unless they can exorcise the regressive wing that's holding them back, it's reasonable to fear them doing X horrible thing".

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

People definitely do lose their minds when the CPC's membership does that sort of thing, though. There's inevitably a big long discussion about how "this is who the party truly is" and "unless they can exorcise the regressive wing that's holding them back, it's reasonable to fear them doing X horrible thing".

Exactly what I was going to say.

This is how its supposed to work as well, stupid overreaching policy brought forward is met with public pushback and discourse, forcing them to backtrack on these stupid policy decisions. Don't try and sit there and act like you are above the exact same reactions.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Good on Quebec. I hope more provinces crack down on short term rentals.

Short-term rentals are a necessary part of the housing supply, particularly in places with low vacancies, unless you want people renting units they haven't even had a chance to look at and lowered labour mobility.

Scapegoating AirBnB for housing costs isn't a real solution to the real problem, which is that we don't zone for and build enough housing in the places where people want to live.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by SebC

Short-term rentals are a necessary part of the housing supply, particularly in places with low vacancies, unless you want people renting units they haven't even had a chance to look at and lowered labour mobility.

Scapegoating AirBnB for housing costs isn't a real solution to the real problem, which is that we don't zone for and build enough housing in the places where people want to live.

I was thinking the other way. so many thousands of people are using dwellings they own for short term holiday rentals that it's a factor in the long term rental shortage.

I don't understand how holiday rentals eliminating property for long term living would help a housing shortage.

either way, having them properly licensed and held accountable is a good thing no matter the state of vacancy rates.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

People definitely do lose their minds when the CPC's membership does that sort of thing, though. There's inevitably a big long discussion about how "this is who the party truly is" and "unless they can exorcise the regressive wing that's holding them back, it's reasonable to fear them doing X horrible thing".

I definitely have said something like that. And this isn't a good policy.

I will say though voting for something that at a high level says 'fight mis-information' strikes me as a more reasonable than refusing to say 'climate change is real'. The details of how you'd have to enforce the Liberals policy is terrible.

In O'Toole's defense here - he said they should vote the other way on the climate change is real vote.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'd encourage you to follow the words of a Conservative writer I respect and often agree with.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1655962116606795780

Aren't you one of the most vocal here about how Conservatives are wolves in sheep's clothing?

Aren't you even a little bit concerned that a significant amount of Liberal party members want to censor journalism, especially considering their recent bill actions and recent CSIS leaks which would be silenced?

Even the CBC has criticized the approach, considering they have vouched and support anonymous sources for credible journalism. And I fully agree with their stance.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lib...tion-1.6836592

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lib...tion-1.6838810

Maybe the better question to you is, are you for what the Liberal had proposed, or against?

[Fuzz]

I hadn't formed an opinion on it because I had never read it. Well now I have, you can too.

10-Combatting Disinformation in Canada
Sponsor: Liberal Party of Canada (British Columbia)
WHEREASthe United Nations Secretary-General recognizes disinformation as an
“existential risk to humanity.”
WHEREASonline information sources are the source of most disinformation aimed at
and/or available to Canadians.
WHEREASthose who produce misinformationseek to undermine trust in people and
institutions, including mainstream media and governments.
WHEREASone recent poll found 44% Canadians believe much of the information
from news organizations is false and 71% believe official government accounts of
events are untrustworthy.
WHEREASthe demand for information 24/7 has increased the need for programming
contemporaneously with the loss of advertising revenue to on-line platforms.
WHEREASto reduce costs, mainstream media no longer employs as many reporters
with extensive knowledge of particular subject areas, and fills content with opinion
programming rather than news, and
WHEREASthe result has devalued mainstream media as a source of news and
information.
BE IT RESOLVED THATthe Liberal Party of Canada:



●Request the Government provide additional public funds to support
advertisement-free news and information reporting by Canadian media through
an arm’s-length non-partisan mechanism.
●Request the Government explore options to hold on-line information services
accountable for the veracity of material published on their platforms and to limit
publication only to material whose sources can be traced.

https://2023.liberal.ca/wp-content/u...FICIAL_ENG.pdf


OK, so keeping in mind it is a policy resolution, and nothing more, we can look at the kinda maybe's in the bullet points. The first sounds reasonable enough. Proper information to the electorate is a necessity to a functioning democracy. One you can't leave entirely to private corporations, for pretty obvious reasons.


The second is obviously the contentious one. "explore options" is just that, research. Seems a good idea for a government to do that, no? The second part is clearly going to be where it all falls apart. Which means it's going to go nowhere anyway, so why am I angry again?


Do I think we need to find a way to control misinformation? Absolutely, it's clearly damaging our democracy. Have you seen what people on Facebook believe? It's ####ing wild, man. To bring it back locally, we have these people who get ridiculous information, believe it to be true, and now harass our first responders dealing with the fires.



I'd be all for a non partisan organization to accredit journalists, and if you aren't accredited, you don't get access to politicians and events. If you break the rules, you lose your accreditation. This would instantly nuke True North, Rebel, and Western Standard, and improve our information quality drastically.

[Firebot]

Definitely a much more detailed answer than I was expecting, but imagine if you read this from a conservative policy, would you be so quick as to agree to them?

●Request the Government explore options to hold on-line information services
accountable for the veracity of material published on their platforms and to limit
publication only to material whose sources can be traced.

Would you agree to this if it came from a Conservative perspective? What if they explored options on a controversial topic? It's just exploring right?

You see the problem?

I feel you are giving Liberals way too much slack here as you like some of their idea for self fulfilling reasons. Frankly you see it from the perspective to limit or even ban rebel news, True North, Western Standard and their spread of misinformation, clearly.

But what about National Post? Global (who some here have branded as junk due to their foreign interference reporting)? To some people on the spectrum, CBC and CTV is seen as fake news and misinformation (even though they are not).

If you feel that a policy would be detrimental should it be used and up to the interpretation of your opposite political side, is where I think the line should be drawn on whether it's good or not.

You should be just as happy for the CPC or even the PPC to use this policy, as you would the Liberal party.

If you are scared of such a thought, it's clearly a dangerous policy and should not be a policy, period. That's my opinion.

And who cares what is being posted on Facebook?

[Fuzz]

Hold on, who said anything about allowing politicians to decide? That's insane.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Definitely a much more detailed answer than I was expecting, but imagine if you read this from a conservative policy, would you be so quick as to agree to them?

●Request the Government explore options to hold on-line information services
accountable for the veracity of material published on their platforms and to limit
publication only to material whose sources can be traced.

Would you agree to this if it came from a Conservative perspective? What if they explored options on a controversial topic? It's just exploring right?

You see the problem?

I feel you are giving Liberals way too much slack here as you like some of their idea for self fulfilling reasons. Frankly you see it from the perspective to limit or even ban rebel news, True North, Western Standard and their spread of misinformation, clearly.

But what about National Post? Global (who some here have branded as junk due to their foreign interference reporting)? To some people on the spectrum, CBC and CTV is seen as fake news and misinformation (even though they are not).

If you feel that a policy would be detrimental should it be used and up to the interpretation of your opposite political side, is where I think the line should be drawn on whether it's good or not.

You should be just as happy for the CPC or even the PPC to use this policy, as you would the Liberal party.

If you are scared of such a thought, it's clearly a dangerous policy and should not be a policy, period. That's my opinion.

And who cares what is being posted on Facebook?

I'd be quite happy if the conservatives had this same resolution. I don't know how you are tracing a line between "exploring options" and "government decides", no where does it say that "government will decide what is valid reporting". It could be one of the options they explore, but also the could be an option for an independent 3rd party review with specific guidelines.

"Misinformation" isn't subject to opinion, its either they are being factual in their reporting or they aren't. No sane person would classify any of the main stream media outlets in Canada as "misinformation" in their reporting, especially when those journalists will post retractions and corrections when proven wrong.

We already have websites that do a fairly good job of evaluating news sites based on political bias and factual reporting. You simply need to refine this system and put in KPI to ensure that the news meets a level to ensure the information is factual and true.

And you should care what is being posted on facebook. This isn't 1980 anymore where print, radio and TV are the only way to get messaging out. We are learning how dangerous misinformation is. You can't compare Facebook posts to some rando on the street yelling stupid #### because of the range FB has to reach and influence. People on social media are called influencers for a reason. It can't be as controlled as accredited new agencies, but that doesn't mean we should just ignore its power.

I'd be quite happy if any party wanted to look into ways to combat this, and no I won't agree with any sitting government having direct control over what is or isn't disinformation, but its a long and winding road to get from exploring options to full government censorship.

[Fuzz]

Do people understand how dumb it is out there? Like, here's an example from the Calgary Freedumb Facebook page, I didn't go hunting, this was just there.

Spoiler!

https://www.facebook.com/CalgaryFreedomCentral/

These people vote. They decide our future. They have taken over the UCP and may very well run the province for the next 4 years. I really don't understand how you can't see this as a threat to society.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Do people understand how dumb it is out there? Like, here's an example from the Calgary Freedumb Facebook page, I didn't go hunting, this was just there.

Spoiler!

https://www.facebook.com/CalgaryFreedomCentral/

These people vote. They decide our future. They have taken over the UCP and may very well run the province for the next 4 years. I really don't understand how you can't see this as a threat to society.

I love that account, one of the best parody accounts around

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by SebC

Short-term rentals are a necessary part of the housing supply, particularly in places with low vacancies, unless you want people renting units they haven't even had a chance to look at and lowered labour mobility.

Scapegoating AirBnB for housing costs isn't a real solution to the real problem, which is that we don't zone for and build enough housing in the places where people want to live.

this is a bit of a retort to your comment about Air B&B being good for housing supply.

Quebec's new Airbnb legislation could be a model for Canada — and help ease the housing crisis

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...tion-1.6838625

Regulating short-term rentals effectively could help alleviate a strained housing market in many parts of Canada, said Wachsmuth, who has studied the impact of Airbnb on the market.

His 2019 research found that the company had likely resulted in the removal of 31,000 units from Canada's long-term rental market.

In Montreal, where many boroughs already have rules in place prohibiting or limiting short-term rentals, the changes could put thousands of apartments back on the market.

Nearly 30,000 ads were posted on Airbnb in February, for instance, and nearly 80 per cent of the places advertised were not licensed for short-term rentals, according to a survey conducted by a local tenants group, RCLALQ.

[JohnnyB]

I recall a report recently that last year in Vancouver upwards of 40% of residential property purchases were as investment properties rather than as primary residences. I don't recall there being any info on what percentage of those were being used for short-term rental, but government efforts to curb residential property purchases for investment purposes would probably be a good thing.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I recall a report recently that last year in Vancouver upwards of 40% of residential property purchases were as investment properties rather than as primary residences. I don't recall there being any info on what percentage of those were being used for short-term rental, but government efforts to curb residential property purchases for investment purposes would probably be a good thing.

Yeah, there have been some investigations into the amount of corporations that have entered the airbnb space since its inception. It makes perfect sense in regards to the lack of rules and regulations to be complied with vs a hotel.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/big...ions-1.5116103

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I love that account, one of the best parody accounts around

Yep. Right up there with the Western Standard Pitchbot. Surely nobody would post or read anything from there.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Yep. Right up there with the Western Standard Pitchbot. Surely nobody would post or read anything from there.

The Western Standard Pitchbot clearly indicates it is a parody account.

I've been looking for the last 10 mins and nothing about Calgary Freedom Central says "parody" - I'm very confused.

[Fuzz]

If only we could write them off as a parody. Nope, these people are 100% serious, and 100% wrapped up in it. And they vote.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If only we could write them off as a parody. Nope, these people are 100% serious, and 100% wrapped up in it. And they vote.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Do people understand how dumb it is out there? Like, here's an example from the Calgary Freedumb Facebook page, I didn't go hunting, this was just there.

Spoiler!

https://www.facebook.com/CalgaryFreedomCentral/

These people vote. They decide our future. They have taken over the UCP and may very well run the province for the next 4 years. I really don't understand how you can't see this as a threat to society.

Listen to yourself. You want to cancel stupid people? You are acting like if extremism popped up as a result of Facebook groups.

Varieties of views including extremism and disillusion have existed since the beginning of times and will continue as it is part of human nature.

Are they committing a crime with this Facebook group? What's your solution? Ban them from voting? Cancel them? Throw them in jail for thought crimes? Ban groups you simply don't agree with from congregating publicly and online? Do you do the same to antifa groups? I see PETA members as extremists. Should they go too?

I just want to hear how you want to manage extremist views in a democratic country that has a constitution which protects the freedom of expression.

Engaging in stupid thoughts is not a crime. Protesting on the streets, no matter how stupid the reason, is not in itself a crime. Engaging in a group of flat earthers sharing misinformation to one another is not a crime (and sad to say i personally know 2 legitimate flat earthers, one which education level may surprise you).

And yes those people vote as Canadian citizens, so do you. I sure as heck did not vote Liberal last election yet as a country we are now led by a Liberal NDP coalition, of which a party that only had 17% of the vote has more power and making more policies than the party which won the popular vote at 34%. But that's how our country runs. And as this is how our democracy works, I have to accept it. And I will be voting NDP in the Alberta election to avoid Danielle Smith from running this province to the ground at all costs, but also accept that if that's what our province wants, that's what we will get. I mean the US did somehow survive Trump, it's not the end of the world. Same way we are surviving Trudeau. Same way you will survive Smith.

If the Marxist-Leninist party rises up and Canadians vote for it, well that's just great. If the freedom central party rises up, well our democratic society has spoken.

But you can't have it both ways just because you don't like who can vote in a free democracy and want to cancel those votes and want to eliminate their ability to communicate. I really don't understand what you are trying to accomplish by pointing out they can vote.

[Fuzz]

Wow, ok lots of angry typing there...I'm pointing out that people so badly misinformed of reality are deciding our future. I really don't understand how that relates to a Liberal-NDP coalition, but that appears to be an entirely unrelated axe grinding, so I'll move on.

You could just go back to my post to see what I would like done about it, instead of making a bunch of stuff up.

I'd be all for a non partisan organization to accredit journalists, and if you aren't accredited, you don't get access to politicians and events. If you break the rules, you lose your accreditation. This would instantly nuke True North, Rebel, and Western Standard, and improve our information quality drastically.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1656723168701173761
Like, this turd shows up at media government events pretending to be a journalist, and rightfully often gets kicked out. But you can guarantee morons from that Facebook group get their information from him, and people like him. He's fanning the flames and smearing bull#### he tries to disguise as news and commentary. He's making the dumb worse. And he's doing it pretending to be media. Hell, come up with something like APEGA to control the use of the word journalist, just as they do Geologist and others. Take them to court if the misrepresent themselves.

Yes, they'll still spread their trash, but they won't be at legitimate events, and it will reduce their audience. Some of this doesn't need to be super complicated, but something needs to be done before TBA becomes TBC, and the entire country is ####ed over by morons who believe the Freemasons are running the world.