American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS

[photon]

Vox has a newish podcast called Worldly which focuses more on foreign policy and world events with respect to US policies and such. The latest one talks about the Iran deal, it's pretty interesting. Sounds like it took all hands and endless convincing to get Trump to certify that Iran is complying with the terms of the nuclear deal. He didn't want to do it despite Iran not violating the deal.. probably because it was done by Obama.

And Trump has to certify compliance every 90 days.

They also talk about how Trump spent time at the G20 trying to convince other nations not to deal with Iran, which explicitly goes against the terms of the deal, so Trump doesn't want to certify Iran's compliance, but it's the US that's actually not complying.

Also talked some about Tillerson and the state department, Tillerson hasn't ever talked to Iran's foreign minister.

Anyway, it was a pretty interesting listen.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So if Trump is indeed lining up to fire Mueller, what next?

Adam Schiff ✔ @RepAdamSchiff
If President fired Bob Mueller, Congress would immediately re-establish independent counsel and appoint Bob Mueller. Don't waste our time.
7:23 PM - 12 Jun 2017

[photon]

Fox is about as close to state sponsored media as you can get. Earlier Fox's had a story with the headline "Susan Rice no longer planning to testify Tuesday before House panel"

Trump supporters of course lose their mind about how the government isn't investigating Obama and "Obummer" and Clinton and Rice and Powers will end up in Gitmo.. Lost of course is the fact that no one testified Tuesday, the hearing was delayed by Congress.

Their coverage of the whole Trump Jr. stuff was laughable, deflecting to Clinton whenever possible. I haven't paid much attention to their Mueller coverage I admit.

Not saying CNN is great, I pay no attention to CNN, cable news can all be turned off and everyone would be better off.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

For a guy who seems to value such fierce loyalty, he sure seems to have a lot of people on his staff that will tell everything to anyone who will listen. It seems weird that conversations about legal strategies with his lawyers wouldn't be treated more confidentially.

Yeah that it is an interesting observation.

I think what this tells you is that Trump doesn't value loyalty. He likes it, but considers it pretty disposable. For example he's very quick to throw people under the bus.

It also doesn't seem to me like he really rewards loyalty that much. Most of the people he has hired don't seem to be longterm allies or particularly loyal to him specifically, but rather short term opportunists who successfully sucked up to him at the right time.

When you have a government full of opportunists, they're going to keep being opportunistic. Which is pretty much the opposite of loyal.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

CNN really has become too Democrat biased even for me.

examples?

[Kybosh]

I'm sure we've all had managers that value loyalty and then throw you under the bus, just like Trump. It just leads to a faux-loyalty set up whereby everyone kisses the manager's ass in front of him (assuming they haven't already left) and then leak and back stab behind the scenes. It's basically a case study on how to not run a high performing team.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Adam Schiff ✔ @RepAdamSchiff
If President fired Bob Mueller, Congress would immediately re-establish independent counsel and appoint Bob Mueller. Don't waste our time.
7:23 PM - 12 Jun 2017

Only if there are enough Republicans with a spine to follow the Democrats. Given their current behavior I doubt it.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

examples?

I don't want to go digging through CNN's timeline to be honest. I'm just coming from the point that over the past few months I know I've read the top line and shook my head more than once. And I've been eating up CNN's coverage for the past couple years because I would love to see Trump's smug face behind bars. I can post examples in the future as they come up, but not sure if we want this thread to devolve into that kinda thing.

Originally Posted by photon

Fox is about as close to state sponsored media as you can get.

No doubt. I've largely ignored them and laughed at their headlines for years because of this. But I still check in once a day to get a view from the other side. And yesterday I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw. A couple examples:

A few articles on Trump's slam of Sessions, Trump's "red line" on investigating family finances, and Mueller expanding the probe to include family finances. I found them very down the middle and even the comments section were more anti-Trump than I was expecting.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...stigation.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...conflicts.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...e-warning.html

An article today about the legal reshuffle which goes as far as suggesting that Corallo resigned because Trump wouldn't heed his advice to stop trashing Mueller:

The resignation was tendered by Mark Corallo, who had been the lead spokesman on behalf of Trump’s long-time personal attorney Marc Kasowitz and the legal team. Corallo, who was previously a spokesman for the Justice Department, reportedly objected to public criticisms of Special Counsel Robert Mueller. His resignation comes days after Trump told The New York Times that he didn’t want Mueller investigating Trump family business ties outside the Russia scope.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...egal-team.html


Nothing earth shattering there. My point was more just to say I was pleasantly surprised and wanted to give credit where its due to Fox despite being a self-admitted Fox hater / CNN lover throughout this saga.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Trump will be on vacation from August 3-20 at Bedminster. I'd be wanting a long vacation too if I accomplished close to nothing. I would imagine though we could get an absurd amount of tweetstorms those 17 days when he actually has nothing to do rather than choosing to do nothing.

[FlameOn]

Trump apparently blew a gasket when he found out Mueller is going to access his tax returns. One really has to wonder what he is hiding there

President Trump is troubled by the possibility that special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia could expand to include an examination of Trump's and his family's finances.

The Washington Post reported late Thursday that the president has been particularly upset by the notion that Mueller could access Trump's personal tax returns, which he has repeatedly declined to release to the public.

As part of his investigation into the Kremlin's role in the 2016 election and whether members of Trump's campaign coordinated with Russian officials or operatives to influence the race, Mueller is also looking at possible financial ties between campaign members and Russian interests.

Bloomberg reported on Thursday that the special counsel has begun to look at Trump's business transactions, as well as those of his associates.

In an interview with The New York Times on Wednesday, Trump accused Mueller of running an investigation riddled with conflicts of interest and said the special counsel would cross a line if his probe expanded to include the Trump family's finances.

Trump bucked a decades-old tradition during the 2016 election by refusing to release his personal income tax returns.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ss-tax-returns

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

I don't want to go digging through CNN's timeline to be honest. I'm just coming from the point that over the past few months I know I've read the top line and shook my head more than once. And I've been eating up CNN's coverage for the past couple years because I would love to see Trump's smug face behind bars. I can post examples in the future as they come up, but not sure if we want this thread to devolve into that kinda thing.

Not a big deal, I'm just interested in what some peoples idea of what too Democrat biased is.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Trump apparently blew a gasket when he found out Mueller is going to access his tax returns. One really has to wonder what he is hiding there



http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ss-tax-returns

Well because people will find out he wasn't nearly as rich as he was claiming and all that matters to him is that people thinks he's great and successful.

I mean now? Yeah they're using power to make themselves actual multi-billionaires. Before? It wouldn't surprise me in the least if his worth was sub 1 billion.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Trump apparently blew a gasket when he found out Mueller is going to access his tax returns. One really has to wonder what he is hiding there



http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ss-tax-returns

Probably two things:

1) Trump is not as wealthy as he brags about and his hugely in debt.
2) He is laundering Russian rubles.

[FlameOn]

Looks like the Trump Putin "impenetrable cyber security unit" is not dead. Russia is saying the US is still in discussions to form a joint cyber security working group.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ru...-idUSKBN1A5188

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

I don't want to go digging through CNN's timeline to be honest. I'm just coming from the point that over the past few months I know I've read the top line and shook my head more than once. And I've been eating up CNN's coverage for the past couple years because I would love to see Trump's smug face behind bars. I can post examples in the future as they come up, but not sure if we want this thread to devolve into that kinda thing.

No doubt. I've largely ignored them and laughed at their headlines for years because of this. But I still check in once a day to get a view from the other side. And yesterday I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw. A couple examples:

A few articles on Trump's slam of Sessions, Trump's "red line" on investigating family finances, and Mueller expanding the probe to include family finances. I found them very down the middle and even the comments section were more anti-Trump than I was expecting.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...stigation.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...conflicts.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...e-warning.html

An article today about the legal reshuffle which goes as far as suggesting that Corallo resigned because Trump wouldn't heed his advice to stop trashing Mueller:http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...egal-team.html


Nothing earth shattering there. My point was more just to say I was pleasantly surprised and wanted to give credit where its due to Fox despite being a self-admitted Fox hater / CNN lover throughout this saga.

I agree with your viewpoint. I think that CNN is cashing in on the Trump hate, and has gone so anti Trump that it is not very effective. Especially with their headlines. Really, they are just are preaching to their choir, and they aren't going to change anyone's minds any more. I don't think it is good to have biased news outlets on either side of the spectrum. I think that Washington Post does a little better job of being a little more balanced and not just going for cheap headline after cheap headline.

Fox News is kind of interesting. I don't watch the channel ever, but it seems from their website that they've never been a full on Trump supporter. They certainly spend lots of time being anti Hillary/Obama/Democrats, but there is rarely a positive story about him, and run their fair share of critical Trump pieces. At some tipping point, I think Fox could realize that Trump is doing more harm to their cause, and that could drive the more moderate Republicans to realize it's time for him to go.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I agree with your viewpoint. I think that CNN is cashing in on the Trump hate, and has gone so anti Trump that it is not very effective. Especially with their headlines. Really, they are just are preaching to their choir, and they aren't going to change anyone's minds any more. I don't think it is good to have biased news outlets on either side of the spectrum. I think that Washington Post does a little better job of being a little more balanced and not just going for cheap headline after cheap headline.

Fox News is kind of interesting. I don't watch the channel ever, but it seems from their website that they've never been a full on Trump supporter. They certainly spend lots of time being anti Hillary/Obama/Democrats, but there is rarely a positive story about him, and run their fair share of critical Trump pieces. At some tipping point, I think Fox could realize that Trump is doing more harm to their cause, and that could drive the more moderate Republicans to realize it's time for him to go.

Not going to happen. When the only alternative is voting democrat, they'll continue to vote for Trump as the lesser of two evils (in their minds).

[ResAlien]

Moderate Republicans need their name changed to Schrödinger's Republicans. They only exist until you try to find them.

[Badabing]

Spicer officially resigns. End of an era.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/u...secretary.html

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by photon

Some of President Trump’s lawyers are exploring ways to limit or undercut special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s Russia investigation, building a case against what they allege are his conflicts of interest and discussing the president’s authority to grant pardons, according to people familiar with the effort.

Trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members and even himself in connection with the probe, according to one of those people. A second person said Trump’s lawyers have been discussing the president’s pardoning powers among themselves.

Trump’s legal team declined to comment on the issue. But one adviser said the president has simply expressed a curiosity in understanding the reach of his pardoning authority, as well as the limits of Mueller’s investigation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...7e5_story.html

Surely one of the first things that the legal team will tell Trump is that Presidential pardon can only deal with Federal matters.

And I'm guessing that the second thing that the legal team will tell Trump is that if he preemptively pardons someone in his inner-circle, an investigation into any violation of state laws by such person will quickly begin, and any information already obtained by the federal investigators will likely be freely shared with their state counterparts.

And then I'm guessing that the third thing that the legal team will tell Trump is that even if he tries to pardon himself, a pardon will likely not prevent an impeachment proceeding and his possible removal from office.

And I'm guessing that the first thing Trump will do after hearing all of that he will fire off an incoherent tweet blaming the Democrats for the Constitution.

[MissTeeks]

Not Spicey!