'The Walking Dead- TV show ONLY! Only spoilers allowed are about PAST TV episodes!

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Locke

The Saviours sure arent making a case for themselves being the good guys.

Rick's group just walked into a compound and killed people where they sleep, at the word of what another group said.
Not the actions of the "good guys".

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Rick's group just walked into a compound and killed people where they sleep, at the word of what another group said.
Not the actions of the "good guys".

1. After Negan's group attempted to hold up Daryl, Abraham and Sasha.
2. After Daryl's experience with them in the woods.
3. Posted photos of people's heads they smashed in.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Do they need to vanquish all rivals within 2 episodes?

Well they're not really vanquished. As far as we know they've taken down two cells, some scouts/scavengers and a back-up crew. We have no clue how large and far-reaching the Saviours actually are. This really just the beginning. We haven't even caught a glimpse of the real Negan yet.

I'm quite sure someone major will die at the end of this season.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Well they're not really vanquished. As far as we know they've taken down two cells, some scouts/scavengers and a back-up crew. We have no clue how large and far-reaching the Saviours actually are. This really just the beginning. We haven't even caught a glimpse of the real Negan yet.

I'm quite sure someone major will die at the end of this season.

I wonder if we see Rick & the Alexandra group team up with the Hill Top people to form an "army". Rick has lots and lots of weapons since the took out that Saviour's location.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Locke

1. After Negan's group attempted to hold up Daryl, Abraham and Sasha.
2. After Daryl's experience with them in the woods.
3. Posted photos of people's heads they smashed in.

#1 is a good point. I forgot about that.
#2 we don't know for sure it is the same group, though we can guess
#3 they didn't know until they had already started jamming knives into people's ears.

I just think the line between who is good and evil is quite blurred. Both groups are fighting to keep their people safe - and doing more and more extreme things to do that.

Which is of course is part of what makes the show great.

The point is - both groups perceive they are the good guys. And we are watching the show from the POV of Rick's group. If we were watching from the POV of Negan's group, would we have a different idea of who is good. Rick has done some pretty brutal stuff.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

#1 is a good point. I forgot about that.
#2 we don't know for sure it is the same group, though we can guess
#3 they didn't know until they had already started jamming knives into people's ears.

I just think the line between who is good and evil is quite blurred. Both groups are fighting to keep their people safe - and doing more and more extreme things to do that.

Which is of course is part of what makes the show great.

The point is - both groups perceive they are the good guys. And we are watching the show from the POV of Rick's group. If we were watching from the POV of Negan's group, would we have a different idea of who is good. Rick has done some pretty brutal stuff.

I totally agree. We can see from Rick's perspective that he has done some amazingly brutal things but he typically only has resorted to that in the purpose of achieving a goal and has shown that if he isnt forced to do it he can be passive.

Also in regards to #2, I think thats why they had Daryl's bike.

And if the Hilltop people are to be believed Negan's group basically said:

Give us half your food or we'll kill you all and take it.

So its an extortion racket.

[sureLoss]

^ Don't forget they also told the guy Rick killed at Hilltop to kill the Hilltop leader or we will kill your brother because Hilltop didn't give enough "tribute"

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Locke

I totally agree. We can see from Rick's perspective that he has done some amazingly brutal things but he typically only has resorted to that in the purpose of achieving a goal and has shown that if he isnt forced to do it he can be passive.

Also in regards to #2, I think thats why they had Daryl's bike.

And if the Hilltop people are to be believed Negan's group basically said:

Give us half your food or we'll kill you all and take it.

So its an extortion racket.

Rick showed mercy as early as 3-4 episodes ago when they introduced Jesus.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Locke

And if the Hilltop people are to be believed Negan's group basically said:

Give us half your food or we'll kill you all and take it.

So its an extortion racket.

Keep in mind that the Hilltop group apparently do not have any weapons. So they have been in that camp surviving without weapons. It's not a stretch to believe that Negan's group has actually been protecting them. It could have also been Negan that setup the quarry trap, in an effort to contain the walkers.

The Hilltoppers, having not seen any of what Negan is doing in the background might have been holding back. If Negan had been risking and losing people to protect the Hilltop, he might have a right to be pissed.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Rick showed mercy as early as 3-4 episodes ago when they introduced Jesus.

Its not even just a matter of 'mercy' if he didnt have to do all of these things he wouldnt. This is the first time we would classify Rick's group as the aggressors.

If they had enough food they'd never have left Alexandria and you think that if the Saviours werent out there extorting Hilltop then Rick's group would have made some sort of amicable deal.

He could have just killed the Alexandrians and taken their place and their stuff. Ditto with Hilltop and same with the people from the Governor's town.

But he didnt because they werent a threat and he took the extra time and effort to come up with a solution.

Rick reacts to his surroundings. He was happy as a farmer in the prison and you feel that he'd stick to that if he could but threats keep popping up and forcing him to react.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Keep in mind that the Hilltop group apparently do not have any weapons. So they have been in that camp surviving without weapons. It's not a stretch to believe that Negan's group has actually been protecting them. It could have also been Negan that setup the quarry trap, in an effort to contain the walkers.

The Hilltoppers, having not seen any of what Negan is doing in the background might have been holding back. If Negan had been risking and losing people to protect the Hilltop, he might have a right to be pissed.

While true that doesnt really jive with murdering the kid in cold blood to 'set the tone' as well as holding that other Hilltopper hostage in exchange for tribute nor with the photos.

[Radio]

I think there has been plenty of indications that the Saviours are "bad" guys, and sizeable in numbers.

Darryl runs into those people in the burned forest and then later those same people are tracked down by a large group for "stealing". This group was not the Wolves as they had vehicles and guns.

Sasha and Abraham are chased and attacked by another group around the same time. Ambushed as they put it, like they were waiting for someone. Again vehicles and guns.

Darryl, Sasha, & Abraham run into the Saviours on the road who inform that everything belongs to Negan. And that he usually just pops one person right off the bat to set the tone. Not the actions of the "good guys" if you ask me.

Rick is there when the guys return and deliver a message from Negan.

When Rick is punching the walker face to make it look like the Hilltopper was resisting, the guy with the broken hand says "Negan is messed up, but he's got nothing on you".

When the one girl is talking to Carol, Carol asked what happened to her finger. She says they cut it off for stealing, she stole a biscuit or something.

The people in his group seem to be more willing to die than to face him.

So with the amount of Saviours they have killed already and the fact that they extort supplies from the Hilltop makes me think they are even larger. They probably have a hard time foraging for all the people they have and make the Hilltop "work" for them.

Should be an epic battle when Rick finally meets Negan.

It goes back to an earlier post ...there are no good guys.

But you have to ask yourself; if you had the choice between joining Rick or joining Negan who do you choose? Who is the "good guy" between the two? I'd pick Rick everytime.

[Fuzz]

The difference is that Rick looks out for his own above all else, Negan seams to be willing to go after his own if they don't follow the rules. Rick is much more forgiving.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Radio

When the one girl is talking to Carol, Carol asked what happened to her finger. She says they cut it off for stealing, she stole a biscuit or something.

She was talking to Maggie, and said she stole gas from "this place" to go look for her boyfriend's body.

Also to point out that even though the RPG'd group says they normally kill somebody off the start; they didn't. This group that took Maggie and Carol also didn't.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Negan at al are "good." I'm just saying they may not be much worse than Rick and crew.

[Ben_in_Canada]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Also to point out that even though the RPG'd group says they normally kill somebody off the start; they didn't. This group that took Maggie and Carol also didn't.

Wasn't he about to when he they got bazooka'd?

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Ben_in_Canada

Wasn't he about to when he they got bazooka'd?

he absolutely was

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by habernac

he absolutely was

No he wasn't.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by habernac

he absolutely was

Yes he was.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yes he was.

Yes he was.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Also to point out that even though the RPG'd group says they normally kill somebody off the start; they didn't.

Originally Posted by Ben_in_Canada

Wasn't he about to when he they got bazooka'd?

I remember an exchange between the Red Head and Blood Cougher. The Blood Cougher said something along the line of "Oh that's what happened to them." and then commented on how the RPG'd group was probably being dramatic.

Just because they said they were going to kill someone doesn't mean they were going to kill them.

I think Ken has a brought up an interesting view of Rick's group.