Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Lithium]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

How is the end game PvP? Anyone comment?

Gear treadmill like WOW? Arena I win button based?

Is there any open world pvp? Or is it all BGs?

Is there a ranking system?

The battlegrounds just buff up people to have higher HP/Attack, level 14's and level 50s in the same battleground. The level 14 is weaker in the sense that he doesn't have as many abilities, but he won't be getting 1-shotted by someone.

I haven't hit a PVP planet yet, so not sure how much open world pvp there is.

My rank is "Valor rank 3", no idea what that means yet. I can start getting pvp gear at level 20 though from vendors.

I wouldn't compare this to WoW PVP at all, right now everything I have found seems quite balanced as far as classes go. Unlike WoW which would have 1 power class for a month or so until they get "patched". Blizzard hasn't gotten PVP balance right since the game was released.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

How is the end game PvP? Anyone comment?

Gear treadmill like WOW? Arena I win button based?

Is there any open world pvp? Or is it all BGs?

Is there a ranking system?

I'm not into PvP at all, so take this for what it's worth (not much), but I've noticed the following:

There are no arenas, but there are battlegrounds. One of them (Huttball) is like a sporting event where you can compete against other teams of either faction.

Open PvP is an option but it seems to be almost non-existent. Granted I play on a PvE server, but it is one of the most populated ones (if not the most), and I very rarely even see players of the opposite faction. Unlike WoW, where Alliance/Horde were forced into the same areas to quest, in SWTOR the two factions have mostly distinct, non-overlapping mission areas on the same planet. I'd like to hear if people on PvP servers have a different take on this.

There are PvP ranks and gear and such, but I really can't speak much about them because that's one aspect of the game in which I have absolutely zero interest. From what I've heard from my guildmates, it sounds like there's 50 PvP ranks, and you climb the ladder by competing in the battlegrounds. I don't think it's too onerous a task to reach rank 50 -- just a matter of playing a lot, not necessarily being on the winning team.

Also, there's a "free-for-all" area on Tatooine where anyone can attack anyone else, even members of your own faction, and even on a PvE server. I don't know how many people actually go there, though.

[CaramonLS]

As someone who has been playing a LOT of battlegrounds here are my comments:

I live for PvP - I wouldn't play this game if it wasn't for PvP.

PvP is insanely unbalanced right now in BGs - even though you get a stat boost to get up to "their level", it rarely evens it out completely (I have 12000 HP, the level 50s have roughly 15000 - not a huge deal in an of itself though). The other problem is the level 50 gear - a lot of people can get weapons / armor with "expertise" rating at level 50. You can't get any below that.

The description of the expertise rating is "Improves effectiveness in PvP".

When it is all evened out, level 50s have 20% more HP than anyone else.

They do 2x the damage of anyone else in battlegrounds (no this isn't exaggerating).

It still is fun, unless you get stuck on a bad team. Last night we had a team with 1 lvl 50, vs. 7. It was a gong show. The Huttball game is supposed to end after a team scores 6. Well, they get 5 and hold it and slaughter everyone @ the spawn.

I was exploited last night by one of the other team, they ended up throwing the huttball at me as I left my spawn area, I was caught behind the line, apparently it insta kills you from full health AND sends the Huttball back to them.

That BG was messed up because after 14 minutes without warning, my player was removed from the battleground with no deserter penalty and no experience/valor bonus. Kind of a waste of time. Not sure if that was exploits or poor game mechanics, but it had never happened to me before.

Not saying it is all bad by any means, once they separate the level 50s and the rest, it will be much more balanced with the stat boost. I am not sure how effective people will be if they choose to play a guild of lvl 49s (like some people in WoW do), but eventually you would bump to lvl 50 because of the experience gain.

I see a lot of people with crazy PvP gear too, so I think it is fairly easy to 'max out' your gear.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm not into PvP at all, so take this for what it's worth (not much), but I've noticed the following:

There are no arenas, but there are battlegrounds. One of them (Huttball) is like a sporting event where you can compete against other teams of either faction.

Open PvP is an option but it seems to be almost non-existent. Granted I play on a PvE server, but it is one of the most populated ones (if not the most), and I very rarely even see players of the opposite faction. Unlike WoW, where Alliance/Horde were forced into the same areas to quest, in SWTOR the two factions have mostly distinct, non-overlapping mission areas on the same planet. I'd like to hear if people on PvP servers have a different take on this.

There are PvP ranks and gear and such, but I really can't speak much about them because that's one aspect of the game in which I have absolutely zero interest. From what I've heard from my guildmates, it sounds like there's 50 PvP ranks, and you climb the ladder by competing in the battlegrounds. I don't think it's too onerous a task to reach rank 50 -- just a matter of playing a lot, not necessarily being on the winning team.

Also, there's a "free-for-all" area on Tatooine where anyone can attack anyone else, even members of your own faction, and even on a PvE server. I don't know how many people actually go there, though.

you don't run into open world PVP until you hit Tatooine, and not until the last area of that planet really. at that point the quest areas for both factions start to blur a bit, and once you get to Alderaan you should be encountering the other side more frequently. and then once you hit 50 Ilum is the open world PVP planet that is getting a lot more content added to it

it's a far better system for PVP servers than Stranglethorn Vale was in WoW

[MarchHare]

you don't run into open world PVP until you hit Tatooine, and not until the last area of that planet really. at that point the quest areas for both factions start to blur a bit, and once you get to Alderaan you should be encountering the other side more frequently. and then once you hit 50 Ilum is the open world PVP planet that is getting a lot more content added to it

I'm level 50 and have completed all the planets. As I said, I play on one of the most populated servers (The Harbinger), and I hardly ever see players of the opposite faction. Even on Ilum that's still the case, although I only go there to run the PvE dailies, and I avoid the open PvP area.

Note that this suits me just fine as I loathe non-consensual PvP, but I know there are people who really enjoy having to always be on their toes watching out for potential ganks. For those players, SWTOR probably doesn't offer the experience they want, at least from what I've seen.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thor

Haha don't worry I am one of you, or is it one of us, one of us, one of us..

lvl 22 Sith Sorceror, sooo much fun, Khal is such a cool companion too.

Yeah, but what's your dark rating.

Went to Alderaan and leveled to 31, then I went back to Tattooine and killed the two Jedi, it was still pretty close, the big guy is basically a tank while doing low damage, the old guy is weak on hit points but throws a lot of ranged offense at you.

I basically went in with rage, saber ward, immortal, a endurance stimm, and endure pain and used every force attack I had choke hold, throw sunder etc.

It was a tough battle, but in the end, I got the name of the apprentice, and got more delicious dark side points by murdering the old man, wouldn't let me slaughter the young one unfortunately.

On Aldeeran I'm on the Ugo's revenge mission where you have to stop the transmission, the main boss is an elite 30, I get pretty close to ending him, but I probably am going to level to 32 from my 31. Its fairly easy to level up now, I'm getting between 10 and 15000 experience points per mission, and killing everything in my way.

I need to form a group to go after some of the hero area quests where you power up very quickly.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm level 50 and have completed all the planets. As I said, I play on one of the most populated servers (The Harbinger), and I hardly ever see players of the opposite faction. Even on Ilum that's still the case, although I only go there to run the PvE dailies, and I avoid the open PvP area.

Note that this suits me just fine as I loathe non-consensual PvP, but I know there are people who really enjoy having to always be on their toes watching out for potential ganks. For those players, SWTOR probably doesn't offer the experience they want, at least from what I've seen.

well you're on a PvE server so i wouldn't expect you'd see a lot of the other faction. on my PvP server i run across imperial players quite often on Alderaan. it's not as much as WoW where both factions were questing in the exact same area, but it's a lot better than say Warhammer where the areas were completely divided and you only ever got to PVP in the open world if you went out of your way to a keep. SWTOR has a nice balance where the areas overlap somewhat, but not so much that it's a total gankfest and you can't get any questing done

[Komskies]

My Sith Juggernaut Immortal is level 28 right now, and I'm enjoying this game immensely so far. For all of my normal questing I use Vette, as she has extremely high dps, but then for soloing the Heroic 2+ quests I use Quinn in Medwatch stance. Right now I'm about 25% done Nar Shaadaa, but I'm working through it extremely fast as I've out-leveled the zone by doing some PvP and my space missions every day.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Komskies

My Sith Juggernaut Immortal is level 28 right now, and I'm enjoying this game immensely so far. For all of my normal questing I use Vette, as she has extremely high dps, but then for soloing the Heroic 2+ quests I use Quinn in Medwatch stance. Right now I'm about 25% done Nar Shaadaa, but I'm working through it extremely fast as I've out-leveled the zone by doing some PvP and my space missions every day.

Nar Shadda was a missed opportunity for me, there were lots of areas to establish my evil side that I didn't take advantage of because I wanted to avoid fighting against overwhelming odds.

the only other thing that I found annoying was the length of time it took to take a taxi to any areas, there should be a way to speed that up. I know the scenary was pretty and everything but after flying over the city 5 times I wanted it to stop.

In terms of crewskills, I'm at about 200 for scavaging, I need to work on my slicing and armortech now.

[GreenLantern]

I would imagine that being 30 levels below someone would have to impose some type of penalty on you in PvP, otherwise what is the point of leveling to 50?

I was more curious how the end game, level 50 vs level 50 PVP was .. a BG system is appealing, almost more so without rankings. Might keep the hard core virgins away and let the casuals have more fun.

As for balance issues, every single MMO in the history of time is always unbalanced in SOME way in regards to PvP. In a game like UO, you just adapted your template, in AC your build, but in a game where it is class specific you just wait until it is nerfed. This isn't specific to WoW and I am sure it exists in SW, you just have to take the bad with the good and realize that PvP will always be secondary when it comes to MMO's. The sooner you accept that, the more fun you will have along the way!

[Komskies]

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I would imagine that being 30 levels below someone would have to impose some type of penalty on you in PvP, otherwise what is the point of leveling to 50?

I was more curious how the end game, level 50 vs level 50 PVP was .. a BG system is appealing, almost more so without rankings. Might keep the hard core virgins away and let the casuals have more fun.

As for balance issues, every single MMO in the history of time is always unbalanced in SOME way in regards to PvP. In a game like UO, you just adapted your template, in AC your build, but in a game where it is class specific you just wait until it is nerfed. This isn't specific to WoW and I am sure it exists in SW, you just have to take the bad with the good and realize that PvP will always be secondary when it comes to MMO's. The sooner you accept that, the more fun you will have along the way!

Not disputing that at all, it is just that BGs are a free for all with no class restrictions, level restrictions or balancing. That should absolutely be fixed in the future.

I mean the WoW system made a lot more sense... level 75s and level 20s have an obvious imbalance of power: Solution: Separate Battlegrounds.

It would be nice if PvP didn't take a back seat for MMOs.

[Komskies]

Some info on the upcoming patch 1.1:

(Warning: some spoiler-ish info inside)

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01...be-amatangelo/

[MarchHare]

It would be nice if PvP didn't take a back seat for MMOs.

Better solution: MMOs should be designed from the ground up to be primarily focused on one or the other. WoW (and SWTOR, since it's copying WoW's design in broad strokes) is quite clearly a PvE game with PvP largely feeling tacked on, whereas Eve is obviously built around PvP being the top priority. I don't think the approach of trying to be all things to all people leads to a solid game design.

I, for one, am not interested in PvP at all, and I get really frustrated when the game is changed to address a PvP balance concern that has no bearing on the PvE content I enjoy. Likewise, I'm sure the PvP players feel the same way when their class is nerfed because of a PvE issue that doesn't affect them.

[CaramonLS]

Meh, it can be both if you want it. Just have the same spells and abilities affect players and monsters slightly differently.

Maybe stuns affect players 50% of what they do for
Monsters, triple damage is dealt to NPCs, etc.

Devs just need to think outside the box a little bit and you can satisfy both groups, although I agree not to the exact same extent of an eve.

I just strongly disagree with the 'slapped on for subs' mentality.

Anyways why don't you like PvP? Far more dynamic than PvE IMHO.

[MarchHare]

Anyways why don't you like PvP?

It's just not my thing. I prefer the challenge of cooperative high-end raiding (hard modes, achievements, etc.), not competing against other players in arenas or battlegrounds.

World PvP is its own beast, and I really don't like the idea of being spawn-camped by a pack of bored players twice my level when I just want to complete quests. I understand completely that other people enjoy the sense of danger you get when playing on a PvP server, but it's not for me.

[Edit]

According to the Bartle Test, I'm very strongly an achiever, followed by socializer, followed by explorer. I'm not at all a killer.

http://www.gamerdna.com/quizzes/bart...mer-psychology

[CaptainCrunch]

Just to add on, between reading the new Darth Plageus book and playing a Sith in this game, its incredibly easy to immerse yourself in the Sith mentallity.

Sometimes though the choices that you make in TOR are counter to what you'd do as a Sith in the Star Wars era

For example in the game you promise a woman that you'll protect her for information that you need. The light choice is that you agree to honor your deal. The dark choice is you turn her over to your ally who is obsessed with her.

In the Plageus/Sideous/Bane era you don't make evil choices because your evil, you make the choice that best benefits you and your path to power.

the logical choice would be to protect her, and bend her to your will, and use her to forward your plan and serve you in that way.

But protector her in the game is a good guy choice.

Earlier in the game, I chose to spare some republic soliders (got major light points for that) and then they came to my rescue later. The evil choice was to slaughter them. To me I made the proper Sith choice in sparing them and using them as a took and I actually got penalized for it.

[Lithium]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Just to add on, between reading the new Darth Plageus book and playing a Sith in this game, its incredibly easy to immerse yourself in the Sith mentallity.

Sometimes though the choices that you make in TOR are counter to what you'd do as a Sith in the Star Wars era

For example in the game you promise a woman that you'll protect her for information that you need. The light choice is that you agree to honor your deal. The dark choice is you turn her over to your ally who is obsessed with her.

In the Plageus/Sideous/Bane era you don't make evil choices because your evil, you make the choice that best benefits you and your path to power.

the logical choice would be to protect her, and bend her to your will, and use her to forward your plan and serve you in that way.

But protector her in the game is a good guy choice.

Earlier in the game, I chose to spare some republic soliders (got major light points for that) and then they came to my rescue later. The evil choice was to slaughter them. To me I made the proper Sith choice in sparing them and using them as a took and I actually got penalized for it.

I've been making every "dark side" choice I come across. As of last night, I am level 20 and I'm 1950/2000 for Dark level 2. I mainly did it because I want to make my companion happy by killing everybody I had a chance to.

Is there a bonus to having a high loyalty rating with your companion? Currently I am just about 2100/10000 with him, and he has only wanted to speak to me 3 times.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Lithium

I've been making every "dark side" choice I come across. As of last night, I am level 20 and I'm 1950/2000 for Dark level 2. I mainly did it because I want to make my companion happy by killing everybody I had a chance to.

Is there a bonus to having a high loyalty rating with your companion? Currently I am just about 2100/10000 with him, and he has only wanted to speak to me 3 times.

Presence / Loyalty are supposed to improve their effectiveness in Combat.

Not sure much else beyond that vague statement.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Lithium

I've been making every "dark side" choice I come across. As of last night, I am level 20 and I'm 1950/2000 for Dark level 2. I mainly did it because I want to make my companion happy by killing everybody I had a chance to.

Is there a bonus to having a high loyalty rating with your companion? Currently I am just about 2100/10000 with him, and he has only wanted to speak to me 3 times.

Crew skills are faster. And apparently more successful - though I haven't seen actual confirmation of the later.