[Rumour] Flames Not Yet Done - More to Come? Possible D for F?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by mile

I would be happy with either Kessel or Rodrigues. The more I read about Rodrigues (good play driver and puck carrier) the more I like him and think he fits the makeup of the team better, I'm just worried that he is coming off a career year at 29 and will ask for more money or term than I would like. I'm not sure what Sutter would think of Kessel - maybe he would like him because he's a winner, but I'm not sure how receptive Kessel would be to someone like Sutter pushing him.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1558899937718538241

https://twitter.com/user/status/1558902214999117825

Rodrigues wearing #71 like Hall would be fitting


Also enjoyed reading this Athletic article on Rodrigues from January.

https://theathletic.com/3052656/2022...ying-the-puck/

My only issue with Rodrigues is like Johnny Gaudreau used to do he is always at the blue line in the D zone looking to get down ice first for offence. Maybe Sutter could coach that out of him but he looks like a liability in his own zone.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The value difference is it would make the Flames a much worse team. I will be glad the day Hall retires so we never have to hear posters pining for him in Calgary ever again.

Does it make them much worse? Weegar takes over for Hanifin and a Dman like Valimaki, Mackey or Meloche take over for Gudbransen and their forward lines look vastly improved from last year.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Does it make them much worse? Weegar takes over for Hanifin and a Dman like Valimaki, Mackey or Meloche take over for Gudbransen and their forward lines look vastly improved from last year.

In other words, you're replacing Hanifin at the top of the lineup with an AHL-quality defenceman at the bottom. Of course that makes them much worse.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Does it make them much worse? Weegar takes over for Hanifin and a Dman like Valimaki, Mackey or Meloche take over for Gudbransen and their forward lines look vastly improved from last year.

Calgary gives up the best player in that trade. Hall just isn’t impressive any more and while he puts up some points, he’s never there for something important. And Debrusk just isn’t very good. Dube has more upside IMO.

If you want to shed Lucic, you do it on a one off.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

In other words, you're replacing Hanifin at the top of the lineup with an AHL-quality defenceman at the bottom. Of course that makes them much worse.

No that would be Weegar who replaces Hanifin. We haven’t seen this roster with the blueline as it is yet. Adding 2 top 6 forwards for Hanifin and 2 bottom 6 forwards was the proposal.

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Dube, Lucic, Monahan/Jarnkrok, Hanifin, Gudbransen out
Huberdeau, Hall, Debrusk, Kadri, Rooney, Weegar, Mackey in

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Calgary gives up the best player in that trade. Hall just isn’t impressive any more and while he puts up some points, he’s never there for something important. And Debrusk just isn’t very good. Dube has more upside IMO.

If you want to shed Lucic, you do it on a one off.

I must be too enamored with how that top 9 looks replacing Dube and Pelletier(?) with Hall and Debrusk.

Ultimately it is all fantasy talk anyway just give me the Weegar extension and Kessel or Rodrigues and I am happy

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

No that would be Weegar who replaces Hanifin. We haven’t seen this roster with the blueline as it is yet. Adding 2 top 6 forwards for Hanifin and 2 bottom 6 forwards was the proposal.

No, Weegar is already on the team. You are subtracting Hanifin and adding an AHLer.

We're not comparing this team with last year's team, we are assessing whether it gets better or worse after the trade comparing to what it is right now. Because it's this specific trade proposal that we are discussing. You don't get to argue in favour of it based on other moves that have already been made.

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Dube, Lucic, Monahan/Jarnkrok, Hanifin, Gudbransen out

Huberdeau, Hall, Debrusk, Kadri, Rooney, Weegar, Mackey in

I'd much rather have Hanifin playing regular minutes than Hall and Mackey. Hall has been declining for years and Mackey has never shown he can be an everyday NHLer.

[Drunk Uncle]

Decided to take a look at available options for the Flames via trade to shift the conversation.

Assumption is they sign 2 players at $800k, bury Valimaki and trade Kylington to get the forward. That leaves $4.125M cap space so the new players listed fit within that.

Feel free to debate the merits of each possible option centered around a Kylington trade. For context I included Rodrigues because I suspect they'd have to move Kylington to sign Rodrigues. There aren't a lot of sexy names but I do think there are a couple potential fits:

Marcus Foligno (doubt he's available especially for a Kylington centric trade)
Roslovic (not sure he would be available)
Puljujarvi (just say no to mouth breathers)
Debrusk (think this is possible but does Boston need a Kylington?)
Rodrigues (would need to move Kylington to pay for Rodrigues)
Craig Smith (old and puts up ok numbers every year but I have no idea how)
Necas (unlikely now that he has a new deal)
Beuvillier (Islanders need a d but is Beuvillier the right fit for Calgary?)
Kasperi Kapanen (like the idea of Kapanen but does he have the skill?)

[mile]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

My only issue with Rodrigues is like Johnny Gaudreau used to do he is always at the blue line in the D zone looking to get down ice first for offence. Maybe Sutter could coach that out of him but he looks like a liability in his own zone.

Maybe, he got a 5th-place vote for the Selke this year though. I think Sutter could work with him

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Guess you are another McDavid fan

What a lazy, ad hominem response.

[Heavy Jack]

I maintain how amazing it would for Treliving to butt in and lock down a trade for Patty Kane, the salt would be worth it alone along with all the 180 takes claiming P.Kane is washed up. Do it up Treliving, it would take a lot to make me upset about trading for Kane right from an assets out perspective.

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Kane

Pahhh leeeee eassseeeeeee!!!

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Everyone was godawful against the Oilers. Hanifin drew McDrai more often than the other defencemen did, so of course his numbers look worse.

But hey, sure, fire him into the sun if it makes you feel better. Because the only way to make your defence better is by getting rid of good players, right?

Point completely above your head again I see.

1) I'm not suggesting firing him into the sun, I'm suggesting improving a position of extreme weakness by subtracting from a position of extreme strength. Do the Flames still have an strong to an elite D if you subtract Hanifin from the fold? I think they do.

2) The good old excuse of everybody looked terrible and well he was matched up against McD so he gets a free pass is not valid IMO. If your supposedly one of our best defensemen and probably the strongest skater of the group, I'd expect some level of competency out there, even against Mcdavid. Thats not to suggest hes going to shut him down but he looked utterly lost more often then not.

3) Weegar is so elite and in my opinion instantly becomes our best Dman that I think you can afford to move somebody.

4) I'm suggesting Hanifin because he would have the most value from a age/contract and whether we like it or not, with 2 years left on his deal and being American, hes a flight risk. Trade him and try and maximize value to address another need, or what wait till 23/24 deadline to see what he decides?

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I maintain how amazing it would for Treliving to butt in and lock down a trade for Patty Kane, the salt would be worth it alone along with all the 180 takes claiming P.Kane is washed up. Do it up Treliving, it would take a lot to make me upset about trading for Kane right from an assets out perspective.

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Kane

Pahhh leeeee eassseeeeeee!!!

It would be amazing! However, I’d go a little different.

Huberdeau Lindholm Mangiapane
Kane Kadri Toffoli
Dube Backlund Coleman

[mile]

I wonder if Treliving was at this event today asking Burke for his opinion about Rodrigues and Kessel

https://twitter.com/user/status/1562181010447630336

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Point completely above your head again I see.

Insult noted. Insults are not arguments, and calling me names does not make you right.

1) I'm not suggesting firing him into the sun, I'm suggesting improving a position of extreme weakness by subtracting from a position of extreme strength. Do the Flames still have an strong to an elite D if you subtract Hanifin from the fold? I think they do.

I don't. They'll be playing an AHLer as their #6. If Tanev isn't 100% at the start of the season, make that #5.

2) The good old excuse of everybody looked terrible and well he was matched up against McD so he gets a free pass is not valid IMO. If your supposedly one of our best defensemen and probably the strongest skater of the group, I'd expect some level of competency out there, even against Mcdavid. Thats not to suggest hes going to shut him down but he looked utterly lost more often then not.

In your opinion. The fact of the matter is, the defencemen who logged the most time against McDavid and Draisaitl had the worst numbers, which is exactly what one would expect. If you think Hanifin should have done better against a pair of forwards who made every single defenceman in the league look silly, then I suggest you tell me what you would have considered an acceptable performance from him.

3) Weegar is so elite and in my opinion instantly becomes our best Dman that I think you can afford to move somebody.

I don't buy that. As they say on Wikipedia, ‘*citation needed’.

The Flames jumped through all kinds of hoops to get the sort of defensive depth where they don't need to have a tweener logging heavy minutes in next year's playoffs. Now you want to trade it away again and put them right back where they were – one injury away from a defensive train wreck.

4) I'm suggesting Hanifin because he would have the most value from a age/contract and whether we like it or not, with 2 years left on his deal and being American, hes a flight risk.

Why do you hate Americans so much? Honestly, here I see another poster who thinks American hockey players have no other mission in life but to screw Canadian teams over.

Trade him and try and maximize value to address another need, or what wait till 23/24 deadline to see what he decides?

Of course, those are the only two options available. Because you can't trade him during this season, or next off-season. You can't attempt to re-sign him. Nope, if you don't trade him right this minute, with two years left on his deal, he will absolutely certainly walk.

Is that your argument?

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by mile

I wonder if Treliving was at this event today asking Burke for his opinion about Rodrigues and Kessel

https://twitter.com/user/status/1562181010447630336

Can definitely confirm that Treliving was not at this event today.
Not to say that they had to speak in person, but it wouldn't have been at the charity shoot.

[Braden]

Just watching some Rodrigues highlights and man he has a deadly one timer

[GioforPM]

So was Rodrigues just underused before or was he just bad and something magic happened?

[Pickle Juice]

I still think JT miller should be a strong possibility.

Huberdeau Miller Lindholm
Mangie Kadri Toffoli

That’s a beauty 1,2 punch in my opinion.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So was Rodrigues just underused before or was he just bad and something magic happened?

From 17-18 to 19-20 in Buffalo the Underlying stats always seemed to like him and he had strong relative metrics on bad teams.

Honestly it mostly points to being underused a bit in Buffalo.