[News] UPD: VGK/ANA Dadonov deal voided by the NHL

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Vegas tried acquiring the contract of a player who is retired on LTIR. They either did it to avoid having to deal with cap issues by taking advantage of the LTIR system, or because they just like paying salaries. It's impossible to know for sure.

Or maybe it was because ANA didn't want to pay Dadonov's full $6.5M salary next year? Depending on the nature/existence of any insurance on the Kesler contract, his salary the rest of this season might have cost $1.35M...pretty close to the backloaded amount of ED's deal.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

The #1 thing I have a problem with is when a team uses its LTIR to acquire another player off of someone else's LTI list. How is it considered long-term injury RELIEF when you use it that way?

LTIR is intended to help a team recover from a long-term injury. How did using it to acquire Jack Eichel allow them to plug a hole in their active roster?

That was apparently one of the things that they were going to discuss at the GM meetings this week (I don't know if it was). The suggestion was that you'd only be able to put a player on LTIR if he was injured while playing for your team.

It would still allow for trades like the Coyotes acquiring a bunch of injured/retired contracts to be used to reach the cap floor, but you wouldn't be able to do something like the Eichel trade or the trades Tampa did last year to add the Gaborik and Nilsson contracts.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Vegas tried acquiring the contract of a player who is retired on LTIR. They either did it to avoid having to deal with cap issues by taking advantage of the LTIR system, or because they just like paying salaries. It's impossible to know for sure.

There was no advantage to take. Anaheim wanted to get rid of the contract to save money. Since Vegas was already deep into LTIR territory, taking on yet another LTIR contract made no difference to them.

You can't pay cash directly for players in a trade, but this was a way of paying cash indirectly.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

There was no advantage to take. Anaheim wanted to get rid of the contract to save money. Since Vegas was already deep into LTIR territory, taking on yet another LTIR contract made no difference to them.

You can't pay cash directly for players in a trade, but this was a way of paying cash indirectly.

They tried to trade a perfectly healthy player for a player retired and on LTIR so they could clear some cap space.

If that isn't taking advantage of LTIR I don't know what is...they obviously had a plan for that cap space they didn't intend on playing short handed for a few more weeks

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Vegas tried acquiring the contract of a player who is retired on LTIR. They either did it to avoid having to deal with cap issues by taking advantage of the LTIR system, or because they just like paying salaries. It's impossible to know for sure.

lol

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What is the loophole and how does it work? It sure as hell is not working for VGK.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Worked pretty good for Tampa. If there was no loophole the league wouldn’t be looking at addressing this issue.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Worked pretty good for Tampa. If there was no loophole the league wouldn’t be looking at addressing this issue.

They looked.

They aren't changing anything.

While a few general managers sitting around the table for Tuesday’s three-hour meeting might have voiced their displeasure in seeing Nikita Kucherov bragging about the Tampa Bay Lightning being $18 million over the cap and winning the 2021 Stanley Cup, there’s no real desire to do away with the LTIR mechanisms.

The subject wasn’t even broached during the seven hours GMs spent together for Monday’s meeting, and it only took up about 30 minutes of Tuesday’s meeting.

“We all get sometimes focused in on recency bias,” said Calgary Flames GM Brad Treliving. “The reality is we’ve had a cap for 17 years and if there has been a grey area of it, it’s been maybe once or twice.

“And the league does a very good job; you can’t just put somebody on LTI and add to your cap without the league going through that with a fine-tooth comb. There’s been legitimate injuries. The way the system’s set up, you can do certain things. I don’t necessary look at it as abusive. Are there areas that need to be tightened up? Maybe. But the sentiment in the room there wasn’t that it’s fundamentally broken.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/nhl-gms...ceived-abuses/

[Itse]

Originally Posted by getbak

That was apparently one of the things that they were going to discuss at the GM meetings this week (I don't know if it was). The suggestion was that you'd only be able to put a player on LTIR if he was injured while playing for your team.

It would still allow for trades like the Coyotes acquiring a bunch of injured/retired contracts to be used to reach the cap floor, but you wouldn't be able to do something like the Eichel trade or the trades Tampa did last year to add the Gaborik and Nilsson contracts.

I'm guessing GM's didn't like the idea because they like being able to trade players on LTIR.

[GhostCookie]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Worked pretty good for Tampa. If there was no loophole the league wouldn’t be looking at addressing this issue.

The reason it isn't working for Vegas is because I don't think the plan was to lose Stone, who has been their best player all year. They probably figured they could juggle off guys like Martinez and co to equal the amount they need, and then trade for LTIR contracts at the TDL to get everyone skating in time for the playoffs.

Too bad for them that they lost Stone and Lehner, their backup hasn't been able to carry the full load, and Jack Eichel hasn't been able to get up to his pre-surgery output.

They most definitely tried to use the loophole, they shouldn't get a pass for it not working out for them.

[Buff]

nm - not worth discussing

[dino7c]

there will be changes...these are NHL GM's we are talking about they will take years to do anything and most of them have frigged their cap up so bad they need all these loopholes.

Any reasonable third party realizes its a total sham to trade a perfectly healthy player for a player with a career ending injury

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They tried to trade a perfectly healthy player for a player retired and on LTIR so they could clear some cap space.

If that isn't taking advantage of LTIR I don't know what is...they obviously had a plan for that cap space they didn't intend on playing short handed for a few more weeks

The benefit was trading away Dadonov. There was no benefit to acquiring Kesler. None whatever. The only reason that contract was included was to save the Ducks some actual cash.

You know what I've noticed most in all this? The people who complain the loudest about alleged plots to circumvent the salary cap are the ones who don't understand how the cap works.

[Buff]

Vegas needed to dump salary. They tried to trade Dadonov. Anaheim was willing to take on Dadonov but realized that Vegas needed to do this so they figured out a way to benefit by sending Kesler's contact back to Vegas. Vegas can take it because he is on LTIR and won't count against the cap. It would not have given them any benefit. How hard is that to understand?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Buff

Vegas needed to dump salary. They tried to trade Dadonov. Anaheim was willing to take on Dadonov but realized that Vegas needed to do this so they figured out a way to benefit by sending Kesler's contact back to Vegas. Vegas can take it because he is on LTIR and won't count against the cap. It would not have given them any benefit. How hard is that to understand?

Yeah, trading players who are LTIRetired isn't circumventing the cap, it's circumventing the rule around not trading cash. Vegas paid Anaheim money (in the form of making their Kesler payments) in exchange for them taking Dadonov.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Buff

Vegas needed to dump salary. They tried to trade Dadonov. Anaheim was willing to take on Dadonov but realized that Vegas needed to do this so they figured out a way to benefit by sending Kesler's contact back to Vegas. Vegas can take it because he is on LTIR and won't count against the cap. It would not have given them any benefit. How hard is that to understand?

The benefit was getting rid of a healthy players salary that counts against the cap while adding yet another injured guy to your LTIR. How hard is that to understand. They obviously had a plan for that space...activating someone else.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The benefit was trading away Dadonov. There was no benefit to acquiring Kesler. None whatever. The only reason that contract was included was to save the Ducks some actual cash.

You know what I've noticed most in all this? The people who complain the loudest about alleged plots to circumvent the salary cap are the ones who don't understand how the cap works.

Benefit was clearing Dadonov's entire cap hit and taking nothing back...duh

If there were no benefit wtf would they do it? To play even more short handed? Nobody said it's illegal just that it's a loophole and they would have used the space for someone...who is currently on LTIR

The issue here is you not understanding the argument and putting words in people's mouths.

The spin is going to be hilarious if Vegas makes it and multiple players are suddenly good to go even though it's impossible to get past the league's LTIR watch dogs.

$100 says at least two LTIR players play in round one if Vegas makes it...any takers?

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Benefit was clearing Dadonov's entire cap hit and taking nothing back...duh

Yes. But whether that "nothing" included Kesler on LTIR or not would not make a difference to their cap situation. It likely saved the Ducks a couple of real dollars.

Vegas' LTIR shenanigan's are a result of the Eichel trade where they knew they would need to clear salary later when he was able to come back. Not with the Dadonov trade who was the salary being cleared.

And then this goes back to at least the Pronger trade anyways. Receiving a player who isn't just on LTIR but would be employed by the NHL while still on LTIR...lol.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Benefit was clearing Dadonov's entire cap hit and taking nothing back...duh

If there were no benefit wtf would they do it? To play even more short handed? Nobody said it's illegal just that it's a loophole and they would have used the space for someone...who is currently on LTIR

The issue here is you not understanding the argument and putting words in people's mouths.

The spin is going to be hilarious if Vegas makes it and multiple players are suddenly good to go even though it's impossible to get past the league's LTIR watch dogs.

$100 says at least two LTIR players play in round one if Vegas makes it...any takers?

They could have traded dadonov and a 2nd for a 7th round pick instead of Kessler and it would have been the exact same result.

The ducks wanted to save some money.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Weitz

They could have traded dadonov and a 2nd for a 7th round pick instead of Kessler and it would have been the exact same result.

The ducks wanted to save some money.

Not saying the Ducks didn't want to save money, I mean, who doesn't?

But clearly Vegas had the intention of acquiring the contract so that they could take a player off of the LTIR while still being able to exceed the cap.

David Pagnotta even called it before the trade deadline (like 10 weeks before) saying that Vegas had interest in acquiring the contract for that exact purpose. Then when it actually happened, some people questioned the intentions... like really?

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2022/0...iscussing.html

This was written and posted as a rumour on January 8th, 2022 from a known insider.

The Vegas Golden Knights and Anaheim Ducks don't jump off the page as two teams who could align as trade partners but word is they have discussed a move this season. According to David Pagnotta of The Fourth Period, the Golden Knights are interested in acquiring Ryan Kesler's contract from the Ducks.

This of course would create some LTIR cap space for the Golden Knights who find themselves in quite the financially mess with the pending debut of prized acquisition Jack Eichel. The long-time Buffalo Sabre is expected to be ready by Feb.1 and Vegas will need to get creative with the salary cap to make it happen.

Kesler's contract is for $6.87 million this season and finally comes off the book at season's end. The long-time Duck hasn't played a game since the 2018-19 season as injuries piled up, forcing him to retire.

If the Golden Knights don't end up paying up to the Ducks with some prospects to take Kesler's money off their hands, expect to see the team move a player off their roster. Evgeni Dadonov and Reilly Smith are two options the team could move to make enough room for Eichel to suit up.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Not saying the Ducks didn't want to save money, I mean, who doesn't?

But clearly Vegas had the intention of acquiring the contract so that they could take a player off of the LTIR while still being able to exceed the cap.

That is clearly wrong. Acquiring the contract does not give you any additional cap space beyond the space required to pay that contract.

David Pagnotta even called it before the trade deadline (like 10 weeks before) saying that Vegas had interest in acquiring the contract for that exact purpose. Then when it actually happened, some people questioned the intentions... like really?

David Pagnotta is wrong. The language of the CBA is quite clear. But journalists are not noted for their understanding of mathematics.

When you acquire a player and put him on LTIR, he counts against your cap, but you are allowed to exceed the cap by the same amount. If you add a $7 million injured player, you pay $7 million against your cap and receive the right to spend $7 million on a replacement. You gain no cap benefit from this. The two numbers cancel out. All it means is that you are out of pocket by the actual cash amount of the injured player's salary.

THERE IS NO BENEFIT.

Why are some people unable to understand this very simple arithmetic?