Alexander Ovechkin v. The World

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by butterfly

To do what Tom Brady did requires an entire life of commitment and discipline which I think very few people are even capable of, let alone interested in.

Ovechkin is 38 and needs 68 goals. It's extremely possible still with a normal aging curve and nothing like Brady did. He just joined the 1,500 point club which only 15 other people are in.

It's all up to how long and how badly he wants that record. He will be offered contracts until he hits it. Him holding that record is worth more for the Capitals than any contract.

[rohara66]

Anyone watch Caps games? WTF is up with Ovie?

Goalless in last 13 games. Only 5 on the season.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by rohara66

Anyone watch Caps games? WTF is up with Ovie?

Goalless in last 13 games. Only 5 on the season.

Just watch him play if you get a chance. Older players lose it at some point, and he is toast as of this season. He simply can't keep up anymore, and any goals he has scored have come from the team mandate of feeding Ovie whenever you can.

He has 5 goals with the team babying him into shot opportunities. He. is. done.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by rohara66

Anyone watch Caps games? WTF is up with Ovie?

Goalless in last 13 games. Only 5 on the season.

This is like Lanny Mcdonald hitting the wall at the end.

[trackercowe]

Matthew Tkachuk also only has 5 goals on the season. I don't think Ovechkin is done. He's still getting shots, they're just not going in right now. He needs a better playmaker with Backstrom out. He's obviously not the same as he once was, but I would wait a while longer till you state that he's "finished".

[Your Calgary Flames!]

He needs a Huberdeau.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Matthew Tkachuk also only has 5 goals on the season. I don't think Ovechkin is done. He's still getting shots, they're just not going in right now. He needs a better playmaker with Backstrom out. He's obviously not the same as he once was, but I would wait a while longer till you state that he's "finished".

He literally can't keep up with the play. You're done at that point. This isn't the old days where the game was slow enough for aging vets to putter around tap pucks in the net here and there.

The game is just too fast and young now.

[MegaErtz]

There's no way he's breaking the record, but let's be honest, the game was totally different back when Gretzky played. So few defencemen could skate backwards, goalies barely wore pads, and guys were drinking and smoking in between periods. Ovechkin's goals total is far more impressive than Gretzky's record in my opinion.

[Murph]

Originally Posted by jayswin

He literally can't keep up with the play. You're done at that point. This isn't the old days where the game was slow enough for aging vets to putter around tap pucks in the net here and there.

The game is just too fast and young now.

He scored 42 goals last year…

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

There's no way he's breaking the record, but let's be honest, the game was totally different back when Gretzky played. So few defencemen could skate backwards, goalies barely wore pads, and guys were drinking and smoking in between periods. Ovechkin's goals total is far more impressive than Gretzky's record in my opinion.

Oh yes. But its an old man's game played by kids.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

There's no way he's breaking the record, but let's be honest, the game was totally different back when Gretzky played. So few defencemen could skate backwards, goalies barely wore pads, and guys were drinking and smoking in between periods. Ovechkin's goals total is far more impressive than Gretzky's record in my opinion.

Hahahaha, I don't know if everyone is up for the old days vs new days argument when evaluating stars. It's fruitless and we've literally done it a million times on CP.

I'll sum the argument up - "You're not considering this from the old days" "Well you're not considering this from the new days". Multiply this by 1000 posts and you've got the whole back and forth in a nutshell.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Murph

He scored 42 goals last year…

Yes, which doesn't contradict what I said at all. The wheels fall off suddenly one year for all aging stars. You watch him play, the wheels have fallen off. He can't keep up.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Yes, which doesn't contradict what I said at all. The wheels fall off suddenly one year for all aging stars. You watch him play, the wheels have fallen off. He can't keep up.

Well, no; sometimes the wheels slowly get wobbly. Goals scored by Iginla in his last four seasons in the league: 30, 29, 22, 14.

That said, it does often happen as you say.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Well, no; sometimes the wheels slowly get wobbly. Goals scored by Iginla in his last four seasons in the league: 30, 29, 22, 14.

That said, it does often happen as you say.

More often it is a sudden drop off. Depends a lot on the player and what their off ice commitment is (diet, exercise, alcohol, drugs, etc). A player that doesn't do drugs or drink heavy and commits religiously to healthy eating and exercise (Iginla by all accounts) will have a less dramatic drop off.

That isn't a comment on Ovechkin as I don't know his off ice habits, but more often than not star players look like they can go for another 5 years and then they come back one September, lose a critical step in speed and they're done.

That's what Ovechkin looks like on ice, this season. He's gassed and doesn't play real hockey, he just goes up and down the ice looking for offensive opportunities.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Yes, which doesn't contradict what I said at all. The wheels fall off suddenly one year for all aging stars. You watch him play, the wheels have fallen off. He can't keep up.

And it's not just about keeping up, top goal scorers rely on quick reactions, the wiring from brain to hands ultimately gets slower and it usually happens very quickly, watching AO he is now missing easy one-timers or is taking that extra split second to get the shot off which is enough time for the goalie.

Unless mother Russia finds some kind of miracle "treatment"(don't count this out) to revive his twitch muscles I say he's done.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Murph

He scored 42 goals last year…

He looked gassed the game I watched, maybe he came into the season a bit out of shape.

[MegaErtz]

Teams shouldn't be allowed to sign players to contracts that take them further than the season that ends after they turn 35. After that, one year deals until they retire. Ovechkin carries a $9.5m cap hit for two seasons after this. The team sucks, Ovechkin sucks, and the fans should not be forced to watch a guy who is clearly done as a top level competitor get fed pucks all night long in losing efforts.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

There's no way he's breaking the record, but let's be honest, the game was totally different back when Gretzky played. So few defencemen could skate backwards, goalies barely wore pads, and guys were drinking and smoking in between periods. Ovechkin's goals total is far more impressive than Gretzky's record in my opinion.

Ovi has:
260 more goals than his nearest contemporary (Crosby),
297 more than Stamkos (though this will certainly tighten up),
and nearly 350 more than Malkin (who played a lot less games).

Gretzky has:
153 more than Hull
186 more than Gartner
200 Messier
202 Yzerman
204 Lemieux (a lot less games)
226 Robitaille
254 Andreychuk


So 7 guys born within 5 years of Gretzky are closer than the next guy born within 5 years of Ovi.


47 guys have scored 500 goals. 17 were born within 5 years of Gretzky. Currently 2 within 5 years of Ovi (though Malkin/Pavelski/Kane/Tavares have a pretty good chance of making it, too).

Originally Posted by jayswin

Hahahaha, I don't know if everyone is up for the old days vs new days argument when evaluating stars. It's fruitless and we've literally done it a million times on CP.

I'll sum the argument up - "You're not considering this from the old days" "Well you're not considering this from the new days". Multiply this by 1000 posts and you've got the whole back and forth in a nutshell.

Sure, but it is interesting to see just how much Ovi has differentiated from his contemporaries.

And there are two big "what ifs" with Gretzky...Lemieux and Bossy could easily have matched him.

Crosby/Malkin/Stamkos could each have a bunch more goals if not for injury, but it's unlikely any would get as close as Hull is to Gretz.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Teams shouldn't be allowed to sign players to contracts that take them further than the season that ends after they turn 35. After that, one year deals until they retire. Ovechkin carries a $9.5m cap hit for two seasons after this. The team sucks, Ovechkin sucks, and the fans should not be forced to watch a guy who is clearly done as a top level competitor get fed pucks all night long in losing efforts.

They got a cup out of it. I'd happily take two seasons of a star player that fell off a cliff for that. Deadweight like for two seasons won't matter when they start to bottom out and get high draft picks.

You need to hit the floor anyways.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Matthew Tkachuk also only has 5 goals on the season. I don't think Ovechkin is done. He's still getting shots, they're just not going in right now. He needs a better playmaker with Backstrom out. He's obviously not the same as he once was, but I would wait a while longer till you state that he's "finished".

What? Linemates don't matter. Ovie should instantly make everyone on his line WAY better.