Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I've read your post like three times and still actually have no idea what your problem is here. What do you want to change exactly?

Focusing on the acceleration and getting faster 0-60 times out of these vehicles which are heavier and heavier (F150 lightning is 6500lbs for example) is a menace to anyone not inside the vehicle.

More bikes, less cars, electric or otherwise.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by kermitology

More bikes, less cars, electric or otherwise.

Do you want to put into law how many cars can be produced and sold? Short of that ~90 million vehicles/year will be produced may as well make them much cleaner.

What car do you own?

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by zamler

Do you want to put into law how many cars can be produced and sold? Short of that ~90 million vehicles/year will be produced may as well make them much cleaner.

What car do you own?

A cargo bike.

[CroFlames]

TIL Rimac Automobili is a Croatian company.

I thought the only players in car production were Germany, France, Italy, UK, USA and Japan with China, India and Russia having their own domestic brands (that are generally crappy).

Cool.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Focusing on the acceleration and getting faster 0-60 times out of these vehicles which are heavier and heavier (F150 lightning is 6500lbs for example) is a menace to anyone not inside the vehicle.

More bikes, less cars, electric or otherwise.

The source of your complaint is literally by-design where EVs are concerned.

First, weight: Vehicles in general have been getting heavier over the years as more and more safety equipment for both occupants and pedestrians they may hit have been added. The weight problem with EVs is down to the fact that the batteries themselves are very heavy.

As for acceleration, you have performance brands making a big deal out of performance figures, but again, their fast acceleration is by-design, it's the nature of an electric powertrain. The virtually instant torque delivery and single speed transmission design that (most) EVs can use is the reason why they accelerate so quickly. Even your average run-of-the-mill pedestrian EVs are quite quick for this reason. Think of how quickly a battery-operated drill gets from stationary to full speed when you pull the trigger. That's an EV.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Electric cars were never going to become popular without being sexy and fast. Worth it to boot combustion engines long term.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

TIL Rimac Automobili is a Croatian company.

I thought the only players in car production were Germany, France, Italy, UK, USA and Japan with China, India and Russia having their own domestic brands (that are generally crappy).

Cool.

Don't forget South Korea with KIA. Actually it's kind of embarrassing that Canada is the only G7 country without a domestic auto manufacturer

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I've read your post like three times and still actually have no idea what your problem is here. What do you want to change exactly?

I think his point is EV technology focused on performance is not focused on the environment (and other considerations). Yes an EV super car is way more efficient than a gas-guzzling one, but it’s still an extravagant use of resources in the bigger picture.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Only if you think the 8 Rimac's built is a production car

If you do it won't last long as the Tesla Roadster will be out next year

Tesla Roadster 2022

Base Specs.
Acceleration 0-60 mph. 1.9 sec.
Acceleration 0-100 mph. 4.2 sec.
Acceleration 1/4 mile. 8.8 sec.
Top Speed. Over 250 mph.
Wheel Torque. 10,000 Nm.
Mile Range. 620 miles
Price. 200k USD

Oh I forgot, Musk has said the Tesla Roadster SpaceX edition will do 0-60 mph in 1.1 sec

Pressurized driving suits required?

I don’t see how something like that should be street legal despite safety systems . The time between “I’m going for it” and “whoa, didn’t see that cat” is reduced to nothing, as is the blood supply to your brain.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I think his point is EV technology focused on performance is not focused on the environment (and other considerations). Yes an EV super car is way more efficient than a gas-guzzling one, but it’s still an extravagant use of resources in the bigger picture.

I'd argue that focusing on performance and the environment are not mutually exclusive where EVs are concerned. The two king-of-the-hill EVs for EPA estimated range also happen to be within spitting distance of their Performance counterparts for acceleration figures.

Tesla Model S Long Range (3.1 seconds): 405 miles
Tesla Model S Plaid (2.2 seconds): 390 miles
Tesla Model 3 Long Range (4.2 seconds): 353 miles
Tesla Model 3 Performance: (3.4 seconds) 315 miles

Meanwhile a Hyundai Kona Electric will do a mere 258 miles with its 201 horsepower electric motor and take 6.4 seconds to get to 60 MPH.

(I've added the rollout back in for the performance models because otherwise the numbers are just filthy lies.)

You can make less powerful EVs but that pretty much directly translates into less efficient EVs.


On that note, I'd really like if every nitwit with a Model 3 would stop trying to race me.

[Fuzz]

Just curious, why does less HP mean reduced range? I'm not sure I get that relationship.

According to this:

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...=1&rowLimit=50

The Kona is about as efficient as the Model S at 120 MPGe. v Range would be dependent on efficiency and battery size, not HP.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Just curious, why does less HP mean reduced range? I'm not sure I get that relationship.

According to this:

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Powe...=1&rowLimit=50

The Kona is about as efficient as the Model S at 120 MPGe. v Range would be dependent on efficiency and battery size, not HP.

I’m happy to be wrong if I am, and perhaps I misspoke in suggesting less performance equals less range. But it seems to me that performance isn’t a detriment to EV range and the highest performing EVs also happen to have the best range, to which I reiterate my main point which is that focusing on performance and the environment aren’t mutually exclusive here.

[Fuzz]

Ya, fair enough. Performance can have a minor detriment to range, in that you need bigger motors which weigh more, but that would be minimal. If you actually want to use that performance, you also probably want a bigger battery pack, because they will drain it faster. But you can drive those high performing cars in the same lower power usage manner. So they aren't really necessarily related.

[zamler]

The compromises to have a sub 10 second EV are incredibly small compared to an ICE car let's put it that way.

[GreenLantern2814]

So, any news on how people who don’t own homes are meant to operate an EV as a daily driver?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

So, any news on how people who don’t own homes are meant to operate an EV as a daily driver?

Or those in condo buildings without any EV charging infrastructure

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Or those in condo buildings without any EV charging infrastructure

Plug it into your block heater outlet and don’t go anywhere 29 hours at a time.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Or those in condo buildings without any EV charging infrastructure

….. they add them over time as a selling feature? Are these actual question marks from you two?

Time. Time is the answer.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

….. they add them over time as a selling feature? Are these actual question marks from you two?

Time. Time is the answer.

It’s minimum $750 for someone to come install a 240V charge station at your house, and likely you’re out over $1k out of pocket when all is said and done.

So we could spend a gazillion dollars retrofitting every parking space in the country, or we could convert gas stations to hydrogen stations (over time, as you say).

I don’t get this battery obsession. Whatever the limitations of hydrogen, it appears to do the job of moving people and things about as well as gasoline, with 0 tailpipe emissions.

EVs, on the other hand, are niche products for the richest members of our society. That’s why the doors on the Model X open the way they do - they’re the doors of a billionaire.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Or those in condo buildings without any EV charging infrastructure

Many condo buildings are looking at this as of now. Some owners in my building have taken it upon themselves to install one at their own expense - which is quite large.

Our building has since applied for a government program wherein the cost of installation per unit is essentially halved (through subsidies) to the owner. I signed up - i don't own an electric vehicle but would like to get one, also it cannot hurt the resale price.

Will keep everyone posted if it goes through.