[Rumour] UPD: Flames are done for the day. Zucker deal does not go through

[Azure]

Now that Fenton is fired we would have to give up more to get Zucker.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

As Laurence Gilman says, players play, coaches coach and managers manage.

Players/agents do not get involved in coaching decisions, especially in a public manner. Very unprofessional.

Agents can lobby on behalf of their client, preferably not on Twitter where they are trying to embarrass the organization.

If Frolik blocked (hard to believe) after the stunts his agent pulled, GMBT has every right to be pissed.

Yeah, well the world has changed. The president of the US uses Twitter, maybe this confused Frolik’s agent.

Not only that, but coaches talk a lot about how different it is to coach the new generation. Your idea that players don’t have input in to the team and that stuff happens behind closed doors is naive or antiquated, or basically wrong for some other reason because it’s not reality

Most importantly, the team was making an obvious mistake for itself on the ice, devaluing a good asset, and frankly at risk of significantly damaging his career. Damn right his agent should advocate for him.

BT is a big boy. He can separate business from personal

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Azure

Now that Fenton is fired we would have to give up more to get Zucker.

Unless they hire Chiarelli.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah, well the world has changed. The president of the US uses Twitter, maybe this confused Frolik’s agent.

Not only that, but coaches talk a lot about how different it is to coach the new generation. Your idea that players don’t have input in to the team and that stuff happens behind closed doors is naive or antiquated, or basically wrong for some other reason because it’s not reality

Most importantly, the team was making an obvious mistake for itself on the ice, devaluing a good asset, and frankly at risk of significantly damaging his career. Damn right his agent should advocate for him.

BT is a big boy. He can separate business from personal

Frolik is a third line player on any good team now, no obvious mistake made.

[Freeway]

All indications were that Frolik didn't block the trade.

[Vinny01]

So Treliving could t get approval from Bean to make the trade in time?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Frolik is a third line player on any good team now, no obvious mistake made.

Sure. He is a middle six guy on any team.

Playing James Neal (who was arguably not really a NHL caliber player last year) and scratching Frolik is, in fact, an obvious mistake.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sure. He is a middle six guy on any team.

Playing James Neal (who was arguably not really a NHL caliber player last year) and scratching Frolik is, in fact, an obvious mistake.

I don't know about that. Both times Frolik was scratched last year he returned and played some of his best games all season. It seemed to have had the desired effect.

[FlamesAddiction]

Some people make too big of a deal about healthy scratches. It happens to decent players on deep teams all the time. Some act like it is the ultimate insult or confirmation that the player sucks, when all it means is that there is internal competition to get other players into games.

Normal players go through slumps and get scratched occasionally. Frolik is a normal player. Not a star and not a chump, but a useful mid-6 that would be valuable depth of any team if cap space wasn't a concern for them. Unfortunately, with the cap stagnating this year, it is a concern for a lot of teams.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't know about that. Both times Frolik was scratched last year he returned and played some of his best games all season. It seemed to have had the desired effect.

So his agent was right. He should be played. Neal, not so much

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by cracher

Which ever side screwed up, thank you. Zucker isn’t enough of a needle-mover to have prevented the rest of the team (minus Smith) from crapping the bed An early exit and no Pelletier would have sucked even worse.

You’d have to think if this deal had happened Treliving would have moved a defenseman for picks at this year’s draft.

[Bingo]

The Frolik thing has been greatly exaggerated.

He was a healthy scratch against Colorado after taking two lazy hooking/tripping penalties against the Blues the night before. It's early in the season. Peters is sending a message to not just Frolik but the whole team.

Then he goes down for an injury, gets put on the IR on November 21st and misses 15 games with an injury (think it was his ankle). Activated on December 22nd.

Then on December 29th it looks like he was a healthy scratch, but given it was a week after missing a month not a stretch that he was having trouble working his way back in.

That's it.

Two games. And none in the new year.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Frolik thing has been greatly exaggerated.

He was a healthy scratch against Colorado after taking two lazy hooking/tripping penalties against the Blues the night before. It's early in the season. Peters is sending a message to not just Frolik but the whole team.

Then he goes down for an injury, gets put on the IR on November 21st and misses 15 games with an injury (think it was his ankle). Activated on December 22nd.

Then on December 29th it looks like he was a healthy scratch, but given it was a week after missing a month not a stretch that he was having trouble working his way back in.

That's it.

Two games. And none in the new year.

Interesting that Neal wasn't healthy scratched to get some kind of message, particularly now that we know just how desperate they were to get rid of the guy.

Unless there was more (or less) to that mid season injury.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Frolik thing has been greatly exaggerated.

He was a healthy scratch against Colorado after taking two lazy hooking/tripping penalties against the Blues the night before. It's early in the season. Peters is sending a message to not just Frolik but the whole team.

Then he goes down for an injury, gets put on the IR on November 21st and misses 15 games with an injury (think it was his ankle). Activated on December 22nd.

Then on December 29th it looks like he was a healthy scratch, but given it was a week after missing a month not a stretch that he was having trouble working his way back in.

That's it.

Two games. And none in the new year.

Exaggerated by fans or agent? Because if the agent doesn’t make those comments, I don’t think most fans think twice about those two scratches at the end of the year.

I agree it shouldn’t have been a big deal. Sure at the time it felt like perhaps Neal was more deserving of having a popcorn game, but those decisions blow over by the end of the season. Even Johnny and Monahan were scratched a few years ago and people weren’t up in arms about it at the end of the season. If their agents made a stink about it though, it would have been a different story.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Interesting that Neal wasn't healthy scratched to get some kind of message, particularly now that we know just how desperate they were to get rid of the guy.

Unless there was more (or less) to that mid season injury.

I'm certainly not creating the commentary that Neal shouldn't have been scratched.

But Frolik has always been a "stick in" guy and with that you get lazy hooking and tripping penalties and too many high sticking calls. I can see that as being something you'd correct early in your veterans.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

Exaggerated by fans or agent? Because if the agent doesn’t make those comments, I don’t think most fans think twice about those two scratches at the end of the year.

I agree it shouldn’t have been a big deal. Sure at the time it felt like perhaps Neal was more deserving of having a popcorn game, but those decisions blow over by the end of the season. Even Johnny and Monahan were scratched a few years ago and people weren’t up in arms about it at the end of the season. If their agents made a stink about it though, it would have been a different story.

By fans ... it comes up a lot here and on twitter about being healthy scratched all season, and Peters didn't like him, etc.

It was two games ...

In total ice time for the season he was sixth for forwards. If you look at January 1st on he was 3rd in total ice time, and 5th in ice time per game.

[Manhattanboy]

Screwing up this deal and the Lucic signing has certainly tarnished Treliving’s resume.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Screwing up this deal and the Lucic signing has certainly tarnished Treliving’s resume.

Did they buy Lucic out and resign him? I'd be pissed too!

You don't have any of the facts as to what happened and why. Seems silly to make such a judgement on a trade we know little about that didn't happen.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Did they buy Lucic out and resign him? I'd be pissed too!

You don't have any of the facts as to what happened and why. Seems silly to make such a judgement on a trade we know little about that didn't happen.

Oops trade haha.

Agree shouldn’t rush to judgement.

But it’s interesting the speculation now that the issue was on our end.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Oops trade haha.

Agree shouldn’t rush to judgement.

But it’s interesting the speculation now that the issue was on our end.

For sure.

As I said earlier this week I do think that there is an element of hockey fans that get mad at a few GM mistakes and then want the guy fired. They all make mistakes. Guys that get 2/3 right are in the Hall.

It all comes down to a comfort level with me. I don't expect Treliving to be perfect but I do trust his work ethic, ability to dig in and know what each team is doing, and come up with a move based on his reasoning. I haven't felt this comfortable with a GM since the 80s.