[Trade] Flames get Travis Hamonic + 4th for a 1st and 2x2nds

[PugnaciousIntern]

What does the analytics crowd think of him?

Not a stellar last year, but how about his career as a whole and his potential for upcoming years?

[jayswin]

Not to mention HFboards more than we should, and I don't want to paint all eastern time zone hockey fans as stupid and completely ignorant of the western conference, but the number of eastern fans in that Hamonic trade thread that think Brian Burke is our GM is baffling.

Like it seems like if an eastern fan brings up the Calgary Flames GM, there's a 50% chance that poster will either not even know that Burke isn't the GM or still believe that silliness that Burke is pulling the strings for Brad Treliving. Except they don't even know the name Brad Treliving they just state that Burke is pulling the strings for "the GM".

It's incredible and especially hilarious since some of the most self-appointed hockey expert fans come from the east and yet at the same time are almost proud of their ignorance of the west.

"I got a fact wrong about a West team. Does anyone even watch those teams? LOLL!!".

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

I'm surprised how many people want to also add Stone. The biggest need now is offensive depth.

Maybe Stone can play RW?

Originally Posted by devo22

Late to the party.

What a fantastic trade. The asking price was pretty high, but I feel the Flames did very well here. Hamonic is exactly what the Flames defense needed: a legitimate top 4 defenseman with a right-handed shot and bit of an edge to his game. He's 26 and on a decent contract, you can't really ask for more here. He should be a great fit and IMO the Flames now have one of the best top 4s in the league. Giordano/Hamilton - Brodie/Hamonic is scary good.

Since the Isles originally asked for two 1sts, it was pretty clear that the 2018 1st would be a part of this deal ... what makes it a win for me is the fact that Treliving again managed to get a top 4 defenseman without having to give up a top prospect and/or young impact player. Yes, the Flames are bleeding draft picks right now, but I honestly believe that they are in a situation to do that for a year or two in order to make a legitimate push. They have a young core and they have also drafted pretty well lately, so I think the time to do a trade like this is now.

Couldn't be much happier right now. In a perfect world they also re-sign Stone now.

I agree with you. I'm really happy about it.

I also tend to think about it within the context that Defencemen tend to play a little longer and develop a little later, so we've got a top 4 and with Stone an exceptional blueline overall, but without him we've got 3 young top defencemen for potentially the next few years.

As they age or are rotated out you're only replacing one guy at a time, its an ideal base.

And yes, we can afford the picks right now. Spend 'maybes' on proven players.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

What does the analytics crowd think of him?

Not a stellar last year, but how about his career as a whole and his potential for upcoming years?

defensive minded D-men tend to have bad advanced statistics due to the fact that they are not the ones that generate offense and are generally deployed against the tough assignments and things like the PK. Hamonic is a guy who will eat 20+ minutes and make few mistakes. Probably won't put up more that 4-5 goals and maybe 20 points.

He'll be the anchor defensive guy that we've lacked since Regehr was dealt. Hopefully the Flames can add one more veteran guy to the fold as I would not want to enter the season with Kulak and Andersson both playing 15 min every game. Wouldn't be the worst thing, but it could cause a problem, especially if we run into any injury trouble.

[CaptainCrunch]

at the same time he's physical and has a bit of a mean streak as well which can't be tracked stats wise.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

My question is if he is worth getting when we had stone as a 4. Is the 1st and 2 2nds worth it for the improvement of Hamonic over Stone. Looking at it like that it makes no sense.

Re sign stone or acquire a marginally better player for a 3 top 60 picks.


That really makes me think we are signing stone as well as this hamonic trade. Makes a bit of sense tbh. Engelland gone. Replaced with stone. Hamonic in at 4.

I think we can have both of them and still find scoring depth.

[Robbob]

I'm state side so checking in when I got WiFi this news made my day. For those that think the window is only 4 years also need to consider the core forwards will just be hitting their prime at that time. If anything Treliving made moves to open the window and make it easier to retool on the fly in 3 to 4 years. Can't wait for the season to start.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

My question is if he is worth getting when we had stone as a 4. Is the 1st and 2 2nds worth it for the improvement of Hamonic over Stone. Looking at it like that it makes no sense.

Re sign stone or acquire a marginally better player for a 3 top 60 picks.


That really makes me think we are signing stone as well as this hamonic trade. Makes a bit of sense tbh. Engelland gone. Replaced with stone. Hamonic in at 4.

I think we can have both of them and still find scoring depth.

I'd do Harmonic over Stone everyday of the week and that's no insult to Stone.

Harmonic has shown that he can play over 20 minutes a night consistently so if there are injuries to Gio or Brodie he can step in, I can't say the same about Stone. On top of that Harmonic does the nasty work that Stone doesn't do. He also does it cheaper, also he's hitting prime defensemen years.

Yeah without hesitation, as far as the draft picks go, I'm ok with this if it signals that we're at the end of the rebuild and getting serious about competing.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I'm state side so checking in when I got WiFi this news made my day. For those that think the window is only 4 years also need to consider the core forwards will just be hitting their prime at that time. If anything Treliving made moves to open the window and make it easier to retool on the fly in 3 to 4 years. Can't wait for the season to start.

This.

Window for this D core is 3 years. Then retool with the forward core and the D prospects we currently have who actually make it.

In three years:

Gaudreau (27)
Monahan (26)
Bennett (24)
Tkachuk (22)
Janko (25)
Backlund (32)

Hamilton (27)
Valimaki (21)
Andersson (24)
Kylington (23)
Fox (22)

Rittich (27)
Gillies (26)
Parsons (23)
McDonald (24)

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

I think the value in having a very strong group of 4D is they can all handle a modest amount of minutes, allowing us to break in some weaker/younger D on a 3rd pairing that is heavily sheltered. I'd rather take the $3.5M for Stone's 15-18 soft mins per night and put it towards a scoring winger. There's a lot of pressure on Bennett, Jankowski and Lazar to pan out as we don't have high-end draft picks in the coming years to help bolster our offense so they've just become much more important.

I would rather see them take some of the Stone money and sign Bennett long term if possible. My dream contract is 8 years 32 million, but that is highly unlikely. But if they could get him at 5 or 6 years at 3.5 or so (a Rakell style contract) I would be happy.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'd do Harmonic over Stone everyday of the week and that's no insult to Stone.

Harmonic has shown that he can play over 20 minutes a night consistently so if there are injuries to Gio or Brodie he can step in, I can't say the same about Stone. On top of that Harmonic does the nasty work that Stone doesn't do. He also does it cheaper, also he's hitting prime defensemen years.

Yeah without hesitation, as far as the draft picks go, I'm ok with this if it signals that we're at the end of the rebuild and getting serious about competing.

You (and everyone else) are going to have to do something about this. If I have to see this for the next 3 years my eyes are going to bleed.

[CaptainCrunch]

yeah my bad.

Stuff happens when you do coke.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

I cant imagine hes the value of a 1st and 2 2nds better though?

I get that hamonic is better and more valuable than stone. But how much better. If we dont also sign stone...it looks pretty bad imo. Not even stanley cup contenders give up 3 top 60 picks to go from decent 4th d man to good 4th dman.

Seems like a big trade to make for what could be argued is replacing one 4th dman for another younger cheaper tougher one.

That cant be what they did. Im sure they will find a way to keep stone as well and have that solid playoff depth at d.

Considering the wideman contract, engelland move and also 1 or 2 other contracts potentially coming off the books maybe we can keep stone and sign a rw as well.

[FireGilbert]

Exciting news! Very happy to finally fill out the top 4 defence, especially considering Hamonic's contract and the fact he wants to play in Western Canada.

Losing the draft picks hurts but at least the Flames are filled with young forwards and have a farm system stocked with defence and goalies. This isn't like when Sutter traded a first for Jokinen and then went to the media saying the team could afford to lose the pick because he had re-stocked the farm.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

I cant imagine hes the value of a 1st and 2 2nds better though?

I get that hamonic is better and more valuable than stone. But how much better. If we dont also sign stone...it looks pretty bad imo. Not even stanley cup contenders give up 3 top 60 picks to go from decent 4th d man to good 4th dman.

Seems like a big trade to make for what could be argued is replacing one 4th dman for another younger cheaper tougher one.

That cant be what they did. Im sure they will find a way to keep stone as well and have that solid playoff depth at d.

Considering the wideman contract, engelland move and also 1 or 2 other contracts potentially coming off the books maybe we can keep stone and sign a rw as well.

If you're just picturing him as a straight 4th defenseman that's where your valuation problem is.

He also gives us something that we don't have nor have in the system which is a high level defense first defenseman with a physical edge.

Also unlike Stone, the Flames would be comfortable if Gio or Brody went down and he had to move up and eat minutes.

I think that we way over value draft picks at time and that they're all guaranteed to be these impact guys.

This is a big ad that fills a major need, and Stone could play on the third pair and be capable of moving up to the second pair if needed, but Stone on the first pair would be a disaster.

Also if he has a good year, the equivalency is Larsson in Edmonton. They play similar games though Hamonic is a bit more physical. Neither have much of a A level offensive game, but they're both very good in their own end, skate well and make good first passes. This trade really helps our penalty kill as well.

Larsson will probably end up surpassing Hamonic just due to age. But at the moment Larsson is getting a 4.1 cap hit and was traded for Hall. The Flames equivalent would be Johnny.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If you're just picturing him as a straight 4th defenseman that's where your valuation problem is.

He also gives us something that we don't have nor have in the system which is a high level defense first defenseman with a physical edge.

Also unlike Stone, the Flames would be comfortable if Gio or Brody went down and he had to move up and eat minutes.

I think that we way over value draft picks at time and that they're all guaranteed to be these impact guys.

This is a big ad that fills a major need, and Stone could play on the third pair and be capable of moving up to the second pair if needed, but Stone on the first pair would be a disaster.

Also if he has a good year, the equivalency is Larsson in Edmonton. They play similar games though Hamonic is a bit more physical. Neither have much of a A level offensive game, but they're both very good in their own end, skate well and make good first passes. This trade really helps our penalty kill as well.

Larsson will probably end up surpassing Hamonic just due to age. But at the moment Larsson is getting a 4.1 cap hit and was traded for Hall. The Flames equivalent would be Johnny.

Interesting. Havent watched the isles much but ive heard him explained by some as purely a physical number 4 guy.

If thats not the case then it makes a lot more sense. Would be great if he can be a stay at home who allows tj brodie to get back to his old karlsson-lite style where he joins the rush and makes great breakout passes.

My real question now is what do you think are the chances we got hamonic for the top 4 and then sign stone to replace engelland as a 5 dman who can play on the 2nd pairing if need be? If we do that id be over the moon with this. Id be ok if we let stone go but i liked his game last season and i think hed be a great depth dman.

[Oil Stain]

This looks like a pretty good move for the Flames.

Apparently he had a bit of an off year last season, but he's been talked about as a top shutdown guy for awhile and he is still young at 26.

It should really round out their top four, and Hamonic is on a good contract for another 3 seasons.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Interesting. Havent watched the isles much but ive heard him explained by some as purely a physical number 4 guy.

he'll be a number 4 in Calgary, but make no mistake ... he wasn't for the Isles.

2012-13: 22:48 TOI/GP (2nd on team) | 2:44 SH TOI/GP (2nd on team)
2013-14: 25:00 TOI/GP (2nd on team) | 3:03 SH TOI/GP (1st on team)
2014-15: 21:47 TOI/GP (1st on team) | 1:52 SH TOI/GP (2nd on team)
2015-16: 23:49 TOI/GP (1st on team) | 2:16 SH TOI/GP (2nd on team)
2016-17: 20:27 TOI/GP (3rd on team) | 2:18 SH TOI/GP (1st on team)

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Nope, I'm pointing out Management identified and prioritized the hole at defense that you weren't attributing enough significance to.

Everyone acknowledges forward needs and upgrade but one thing at a time, and it's June 24th.

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

Yup.

Treliving identified the pressing needs in this order:

1. Goaltending -- Smith
2. #4 D-Man -- Hamonic
3. Top 6 RW -- ??
4. Various Contractual things within the organization -- Backs already underway, Stone too.

Seems to be following his roadmap exactly.

I have no doubt Treliving prioritized another top 4 D over a top line RW, which is why this move was made. I just think it's the wrong priority.

As I posted above, the Flames were better defensively than offensively last year, yet their first two big asset expenditures (and priorities according to you) were both aimed at improving defensively. I've already acknowledged that it's very early in the offseason, and expect many more moves to come, but at this moment I don't like that they added another asset to an area where they're already deep in priority to addressing an area where they're unacceptably bare.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I would rather see them take some of the Stone money and sign Bennett long term if possible. My dream contract is 8 years 32 million, but that is highly unlikely. But if they could get him at 5 or 6 years at 3.5 or so (a Rakell style contract) I would be happy.

Bennett will get 2-3 years on the next deal. He has loads of potential but needs to be more consistent. He is not a guy you throw 5+ years at on a second contract.