[PST] Second Round: Anaheim (1st pacific) vs Edmonton (2nd pacific)

[Corral]

Say what you like - hindsight is 20/20 or whatever - Getzlaf was a star in junior and remains a star today and clearly would have filled a major hole in our lineup over the course of his career. Can't even come close to saying the same thing about Phaneuf.

Its no secret the Flames are historically one of the worst franchises at drafting in the NHL.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

the Flames picked a guy who will play over 1000 NHL games. That is an absolute home run.

The same home run hit by teams that drafted the Courtnall brothers or Donald Brashear?

Getting to a 1000 games is an accomplishment no doubt - i'll give you that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Wait a minute I remember watching Getzlaf when he played for the hitmen and there were a lot of questions around his work ethic, when he came to play he was exceptional but that didn't happen as often as people liked.

At the same time Phaneuf was highly thought of in the draft, he was suppossedly going to be the next big two way defenseman with a legitimate mean streak. He was also prototypical in terms of size and physical skills.

The Flames certainly didn't screw up in drafting him and anyone who really says that can only say that with the benefit of over a decade of NHL hockey.

Also in terms of his first few years here he was pretty much a beast.

I tend to think that something went seriously wrong with a hip injury and it killed his agility.

[Roof-Daddy]

Where the Flames F'ed up that draft was Ramholt early in round two.

Bergeron and Weber both taken shortly after.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Corral

Its no secret the Flames are historically one of the worst franchises at drafting in the NHL.

Historically yes, blunder upon blunder. And a lack of first round picks thanks to the Iginla ship patching work from Darryl.

There's no question that that drafting has drastically improved since 2010, though. We've yet to see the height of Gaudreau, Monahan, Jankowski, Bennett, Tkachuk and Ferland's careers. Like, not even close to that point. When these guys are 27-30 is when we'll know what this core is fully capable of.

[Corral]

The benefit of hindsight does have to be acknowledged - but it is still a mistake even if no one can be blamed for it.

[JiriHrdina]

It wasn't a mistake if it was the right decision with the information available at the time.

[Love]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Historically yes, blunder upon blunder. And a lack of first round picks thanks to the Iginla ship patching work from Darryl.

There's no question that that drafting has drastically improved since 2010, though. We've yet to see the height of Gaudreau, Monahan, Jankowski, Bennett, Tkachuk and Ferland's careers. Like, not even close to that point. When these guys are 27-30 is when we'll know what this core is fully capable of.

These aren't due to better drafting, it's mainly due to higher picks. Brodie and Gaudreau were great, but we're still fairly mediocre compared to teams like Anaheim and Ottawa.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Historically yes, blunder upon blunder. And a lack of first round picks thanks to the Iginla ship patching work from Darryl.

There's no question that that drafting has drastically improved since 2010, though. We've yet to see the height of Gaudreau, Monahan, Jankowski, Bennett, Tkachuk and Ferland's careers. Like, not even close to that point. When these guys are 27-30 is when we'll know what this core is fully capable of.

There is nothing other than optimism about the current group that would suggest things have drastically improved since 2010.

[Robbob]

The pick of Phaneuf wasn't bad, it was his development. The flames went all oilers with his development.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Robbob

The pick of Phaneuf wasn't bad, it was his development. The flames went all oilers with his development.

How did the Flames mess up his development? If anything, the biggest problem with Phaneuf's career trajectory were some pretty serious injuries he suffered in his third year. He never looked the same after the 2007-08 season.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Robbob

The pick of Phaneuf wasn't bad, it was his development. The flames went all oilers with his development.

I think there are two main reasons his development stalled or even receded
- I think he was highly uncoachable
- his hip problems dramatically altered his overall agility

He's one of those rare players that had his best seasons very early in his career

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Love

These aren't due to better drafting, it's mainly due to higher picks. Brodie and Gaudreau were great, but we're still fairly mediocre compared to teams like Anaheim and Ottawa.

Just because they arent as good as the best drafting teams doesn't mean things haven't improved.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How did the Flames mess up his development? If anything, the biggest problem with Phaneuf's career trajectory were some pretty serious injuries he suffered in his third year. He never looked the same after the 2007-08 season.

Injuries did play a part but they never put any emphasis on being a dman, specifically under Keenan. He was never held accountable because he put points up early in his career and the vets (Regehr and Warrner) were pretty vocal about it.

[djsFlames]

Wow the neggy nancyism is over 9000 in here.

Flames were botching the high picks too, historically.

"Nothing but optimism" says that players that have eclipsed 30 goals and 60-70 points in their first few years on the league and elevated a team with largely sub average goaltending to playoffs in two of three years suggests that the drafting has improved since the Sutter era of Nemisz, Irving, Pelech and Chucko?

Right. Okay.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It wasn't a mistake if it was the right decision with the information available at the time.

Obviously I don't know for sure what information was available at the time, but i'm willing to speculate information was available on how good Carter, Parise, Seabrook, Kesler, Getzlaf, Burns, Weber, etc ... would be in the NHL.

So you and I will agree to disagree on whether drafting DP ahead of these guys was the right decision. I'm pretty sure it wasn't the right decision based on available information.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Corral

Obviously I don't know for sure what information was available at the time, but i'm willing to speculate information was available on how good Carter, Parise, Seabrook, Kesler, Getzlaf, Burns, Weber, etc ... would be in the NHL.

If teams knew how good those players would be in the NHL then they wouldn't have been drafted as late as they were in the first or second round!

[calgaryblood]

Let's also not forget while Getzlaf is having a great series, he isn't very consistent and usually takes off a good third of a season with very inconsistent play.

Likely a reason lots of teams passed on him so you could say the scouts were right after all because almost 15 years later and there still are holes and inconsistency in his game.

When he's on, he is one of the best in the game though.

[bigrangy]

Dion was a beauty and his years as a Flame were friggin great

Getzlaf is p good tho

[jeffman]

Originally Posted by Corral

Say what you like - hindsight is 20/20 or whatever - Getzlaf was a star in junior and remains a star today and clearly would have filled a major hole in our lineup over the course of his career. Can't even come close to saying the same thing about Phaneuf.

Its no secret the Flames are historically one of the worst franchises at drafting in the NHL.

I think phaneuf would have been really effective in the dead puck era when defence men didn't really rely on speed as much. He was drafted in the wrong year