[News] Kevin Hayes signs with the Rangers

[Coach]

Originally Posted by SebC

It's only a deterrent if you don't want to sign with the team that drafted you.

Why should a player have to wait an extra year for that right more than anyone else? Just because they went to school? Not only is it a deterrent for kids to attend school, it would never fly with the PA.

Now that I've thought on it, I'm fairly certain a team holds a drafted European's NHL rights for 4 years before going to UFA as well, regardless of what league they play in. I'm not sure what their re-draft status is though, I would guess it's the same.

Without signing a contract, you become a UFA 4 years after you were drafted no matter what. The only exception is if you are not signed by your first drafted team after 2 years, re-enter and go undrafted. I believe then you become a UFA. Again it's the NCAA's rule that causes the NHL teams to treat them differently. It also forces 16 year old kids to choose CHL or college. It's a collection of bad, outdated rules that need changing. But restricting college players rights more than others is not the way to do it and it just won't fly.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by MattyC

But we're not talking about the team's rights, we're talking about the player's rights.

A player from the CHL or NCAA player can't choose where he signs for a period of 4 years. Period. A CHL player can choose NOT to sign after 2 years, but he is the re-drafted, not a free agent, and thus still has no say in his destination. The same team can even draft him if they want (I'm about 90% on that one). I'm honestly unsure about the rules with overseas kids.

And from the CHL a kid can sign, but still go back to junior and play until he's an overager if he wants, all the while the team can pay the full load for all his expenses and he can actually compete for a spot in main camp. The NCAA players don't have those options, but it's not because of NHL rules, it's NCAA rules. And again, the NHL should not be changing it's own rules to deter kids from getting education.

Depends on the players birthdate when drafted. A player drafted at 19 from the CHL would be a free agent if he doesn't sign in two years.

Chicago had four years to sign Hayes. They waited until his forth year and now they may pay for it. If the Flames don't offer Jankowski a contract after three years in college and he completely tears it up in his forth year... why wouldn't he wait a few months and get to choose his destination.

If Hayes had stunk it out this year, there is no promise that the Hawks would have offered him a contract... why does Hayes need to sign now that he is in demand.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Depends on the players birthdate when drafted. A player drafted at 19 from the CHL would be a free agent if he doesn't sign in two years.

Chicago had four years to sign Hayes. They waited until his forth year and now they may pay for it. If the Flames don't offer Jankowski a contract after three years in college and he completely tears it up in his forth year... why wouldn't he wait a few months and get to choose his destination.

If Hayes had stunk it out this year, there is no promise that the Hawks would have offered him a contract... why does Hayes need to sign now that he is in demand.

I agree with all of what you said but I wouldn't mind a source for this. Do you mean player that was passed over in the draft previously? I'm honestly not sure what happens with players that are drafted after their first year of eligibility.

[PeteMoss]

ah... actually reading the CBA it isn't exactly clear. They may have changed this, but i believe once you hit your overage year in junior and aren't within the two year protected period you can be signed as an undrafted free agent.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

ah... actually reading the CBA it isn't exactly clear. They may have changed this, but i believe once you hit your overage year in junior and aren't within the two year protected period you can be signed as an undrafted free agent.

Yeah that's what I thought.

[EldrickOnIce]

Terrible source, but this is likely good info anyway:

A player not signed by his NHL team within two years of being drafted can re-enter the draft, as long as he is 20 years old or younger at the time of the subsequent draft. Players over 20 become unrestricted free agents.

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/pro...raft-Works.htm

[SebC]

Originally Posted by MattyC

But restricting college players rights more than others is not the way to do it and it just won't fly.

Perhaps a simple solution then is to tighten up the rules for all prospects, e.g. put in place a qualifying offer system for rookies.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by SebC

Perhaps a simple solution then is to tighten up the rules for all prospects, e.g. put in place a qualifying offer system for rookies.

There is a qualifying system, hence the 2 year re-draft rule. But the NCAA doesn't allow players to sign qualifying offers or any sort of promise of payment or they lose their scholarships and are disqualified from NCAA competition, even if they won't be paid a cent until they actually step on the ice in a Flames jersey.

No doubt the NHL would like to have the contract rules for players coming in to be all the same, but they can't because each organization has their own rules. But the NCAA's are especially strict.

A solution might be for the NHL to increase the draft age as the college kids would be leaving school while still within the 4 years. Not sure how much that would help but it's probably the most the NHL could do outside of changing rights for NCAA draftees, the negatives of which I have laid out a few times.

[Vulcan]

I think any changes the NHL tries to make would be opposed by the NHLPA. The NCAA is a corrupt organization that makes a mockery of it's own rules while indenturing it's athletes. At least the CHL is honest about the small payments it gives it's players.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Would be awesome to get Hayes. Poirier, Smith, Ferland, Hayes is not bad at all for RW depth if we could land him.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I think any changes the NHL tries to make would be opposed by the NHLPA. The NCAA is a corrupt organization that makes a mockery of it's own rules while indenturing it's athletes. At least the CHL is honest about the small payments it gives it's players.

I agree the PA wont allow for any changes that further restrict the rights of players coming in. They are plenty restricted as is to try and protect the teams and their picks.

My biggest issue with the NCAA is it's view of the CHL. So a 16 year old plays a couple games in the CHL, realizes he's not going to make it that way, but because of those games (if their name appears on one CHL official game sheet, they're done), they can't then parlay their abilities into an NCAA education because they made a couple hundred dollars a month playing hockey in Canada. They could try and get a CIS scholarship, but those are hard teams to make because they are generally full of older (20-24) ex-CHL players. The only reason CHL players get paid is because they don't have enough time to have actual jobs. I think (and I could be wrong but pure numbers of kids going through this system would suggest it) the number of kids that get adversly affected by these rules FAR outweighs the ones that are able to take full advantage of the CHL and their scholarship program. Basically, you have to go pro (even then you can toil in the ECHL or AHL for years not making a whole lot and gaining zero actual life experience) or play a full term as a CHL player and get your scholarship to make it worth while. Blocking kids from coming to the NCAA because they played a game for Moose Jaw 2 years ago is ridiculous.

You would think the NCAA would WANT to take these kids to help improve some of their more lacking programs. But instead, that 16 year old kid is pretty well effed. Obviously he can try to get into school on his own merit, but they aren't exactly getting top notch university prep while travelling by bus and playing hockey/training constantly. When parents of the kids I have coached ask me which route I recommend/prefer I always say, unless you are sure that your kid will play significantly and has a legitimate chance at being drafted, I recommend college. The problem is, no one knows the fate of a 15-16 year old (especially themselves), but that's when they have to make this decision.

I'll stop my rants though. I'd take Hayes for sure.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Blocking kids from coming to the NCAA because they played a game for Moose Jaw 2 years ago is ridiculous.

The Junior 'A' team I used to work with had a Calgary kid lose his NCAA eligibility because he played one period of an exhibition game in goal for Seattle as a 16 year old. Ridicules

According to the coach, the issue of Brodeur’s eligibility (or lack thereof) arose in recent weeks in the normal process of getting him registered for school. It was discovered that Brodeur played in one period of an exhibition game for the Seattle Thunderbirds, a major junior team in the Western Hockey League.

http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7...eason_0139.htm

But yeah - I guess this thread has been derailed enough. Again.

Sign Hayes

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm all for bringing Hayes on board, and depth of the organization is definitely something to consider for him and I don't blame him. But the line "Hayes would likely begin his professional career in the AHL if he signed with the Blackhawks." irks me a bit. Hayes will likely start in the AHL no matter where he goes, even somewhere as deficient at RW as Calgary. He would almost definitely start in the AHL with the Flames, and if that's a deterrent for him, he's on the wrong career path.

Keep in mind, that is the writer of the article that said that, it didn't come from Hayes or his agent. So it's the writers attitude that irks you

[Coach]

Yeah I know. It just caught my attention.

[EldrickOnIce]

The new deals to Toews and Kane just might make the Hawks more attractive to Hayes.
They will need to round out their roster with guys on cheap contracts starting 2015

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Would be awesome to get Hayes. Poirier, Smith, Ferland, Hayes is not bad at all for RW depth if we could land him.

Ferland is a LW, is he not?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Ferland is a LW, is he not?

Yes, but I believe he played on the right side for most of the year last year.

[Roof-Daddy]

Ferland played LW until he got injured.

He had a slow start, and what kicked him into gear was when Reinhart got called up, Ferland moved to Street and Jones' line.

Ferland - Street - Jones

He then put up 18 points in the next 14 games after going 0 for 11 to start the year.

Then he got hurt in freakin practice.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Ferland played LW until he got injured.

He had a slow start, and what kicked him into gear was when Reinhart got called up, Ferland moved to Street and Jones' line.

Ferland - Street - Jones

He then put up 18 points in the next 14 games after going 0 for 11 to start the year.

Then he got hurt in freakin practice.

Yeah I followed and watched a lot of Heat games and never saw Ferland on the right side but another poster insisted he played there so I didn't want to argue. Maybe the mistake or confusion came about with Baertschi being tried on the right side for a while.

[Racki]

It certainly appears to be a foregone conclusion that Hayes' time is up with the Blackhawks.

http://www.bcinterruption.com/2014/7...-prospect-camp