Malaysia Jet missing-Officials conclude crash in Indian ocean/all lives presumed lost

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Is there any reason in normal flight a pilot would want to disable their transponder? To me, it would be logical that the cockpit voice recorder, the fight data recorder, and the transponders should be wired up in a way that it would be impossible to disable. Especially post 9/11 (and now MH370)

[KelVarnsen]

I will be willing to bet that someone from Malaysian Airlines was in on this. There are too many unknown variables in just the flightplan alone for an outside person(s) to do this.

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Is there any reason in normal flight a pilot would want to disable their transponder? To me, it would be logical that the cockpit voice recorder, the fight data recorder, and the transponders should be wired up in a way that it would be impossible to disable. Especially post 9/11 (and now MH370)

This has been covered, but there are reasons. On the ground you don't need, it may be causing faulty readings etc. Even if they are always on, all someone needs to do is pull the circuit breaker for it.

[Acey]

I wonder if other pax brought the plane down, United 93 style.

[FlameOn]

Recapped timeline of the search so far. Very odd flightpath

1. Flight departs
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 Flight departs at 12:41 a.m., and is due to land in Beijing at 6:30 a.m. the same day.
2. Contact lost
March 8: Airline loses contact with plane between 1-2 hours after takeoff. Flight tracking shows plane flew northeast over Malaysia after takeoff and climbed to altitude of 35,000 feet.
3. Debris spotted
March 8: Twelve-mile long oil slick and debris spotted between Malaysia and Vietnam
4. Plane attempted to turn around
March 9: Malaysian military says the plane may have attempted to turn around. Radar indicates flight may have turned back from its scheduled route to Beijing before disappearing.
5. Search widens
March 10: Dozens of ships and aircraft from seven countries scour the seas around Malaysia and south of Vietnam
6. New theory
March 11: Military says the flight may have reached the Strait of Malacca, to the west
7. Search widens again
March 12: The search for the missing Malaysia Airlines jet expands to an area stretching from China to India
8. New information
March 13: Reports emerge that Flight 370 was in the air for five hours, citing sources who say the plane was in contact with a satellite network that collects data for the plane’s manufacturer, Boeing.
9. Was the plane hijacked?
March 14: Indian officials begin searching hundreds of uninhabited islands in the Andaman Sea using heat-seeking devices. Officials are now openly speculating that one of the pilots or a hijacker may have taken over the aircraft.

Source

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by nik-

The transponder turning off at the transition between Malaysian and Vietnamese airspace would either be the smart move of someone stealing the plane, or a lucky coincidence.

It's a smart move. Then the flight path proceeds to (mostly) skirt air traffic control areas from Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand, etc as the plane heads back west - another smart move. Too smart to be coincidental IMO. Plus the whole (unconfirmed) business about going up to 45,000ft... Pretty quick way to take out 240 people by oxygen deprivation.

If this all turns out to be true it's a pretty insanely planned out scheme. And it still seems like nobody has any idea where this plane actually IS. It's been 7 days. If it did actually land somewhere, it could be totally repainted and refueled and flown somewhere else entirely. Or into the sea I guess.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Peanut

It's a smart move. Then the flight path proceeds to (mostly) skirt air traffic control areas from Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand, etc as the plane heads back west - another smart move. Too smart to be coincidental IMO. Plus the whole (unconfirmed) business about going up to 45,000ft... Pretty quick way to take out 240 people by oxygen deprivation.

If this all turns out to be true it's a pretty insanely planned out scheme. And it still seems like nobody has any idea where this plane actually IS. It's been 7 days. It could be totally repainted and refueled and flown somewhere else entirely. Or crashed into the sea I guess.

With regards to the oxygen deprivation or cabin de-pressurization - is this within the pilots' controls while in flight? I would have assumed that the planes have some series of safety interlocks that wouldn't just allow somebody to do that. Maybe I am out to lunch on that aspect.

[nik-]

He wouldn't have had to go up to 45000 feet though if they have cabin control. The death zone is 26000 feet. It's all just so odd.

[JonDuke]

Originally Posted by Wormius

With regards to the oxygen deprivation or cabin de-pressurization - is this within the pilots' controls while in flight?

Yes. They have the means to do that.


Latest press conference was supposed to start 20 minutes ago. Camera's are all ready. Just waiting for someone to come to the podium.
You can watch it live here if you're still awake!

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/live

For those that missed it...

The speaker said the head speaker will make a statement, but will not answer any questions at this meeting. Reporters are pissed. Head speaker (PM?) isn;t there yet.

[RedCoffee]

it's on bbc world and cbc newsword too

cnn of course showing something else

[Ryan Coke]

It's a smart move. Then the flight path proceeds to (mostly) skirt air traffic control areas from Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand, etc as the plane heads back west - another smart move. Too smart to be coincidental IMO. Plus the whole (unconfirmed) business about going up to 45,000ft... Pretty quick way to take out 240 people by oxygen deprivation.

But what difference does it make when the transponder was turned off? I don't see what makes it smart or not, I just see it as inconsequential.

And the 45000 ft thing, again I don't see a brilliant intentional plan there. Going to 45000' isn't going to kill anyone without failing the pressurization system, and if you depressurization the airplane you will still make everyone unconscious in short order whether you are at 35000, 41000, or 45000'. So it makes me wonder about the flying skills of whoever was controlling the aircraft at that point, or if there was a struggle for control occurring.

Having said that there was obviously some knowledge and skill in disabling both the transponder and the ACARS system. Reminds me of the 9-11 terrorists in that there was some very good planning, but the skill level was really quite rudimentary, and just enough to drive the airplane at a target.

As Acey said, I wonder if whatever the goal of the hijacking was, the flight was ultimately brought down by passengers trying to overtake the hijackers. Pretty miserable last 4-5 hours for the passengers.

[RedCoffee]

nothing is simple in this case is it, even the press conference can't get started.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by Wormius

With regards to the oxygen deprivation or cabin de-pressurization - is this within the pilots' controls while in flight? I would have assumed that the planes have some series of safety interlocks that wouldn't just allow somebody to do that. Maybe I am out to lunch on that aspect.

The pilots control the airplane, and for the most part, all of the systems. With all respect, what do you think that pilots do? It seems you have an image of a bunch of automated systems that nobody has control over.

While automation has greatly increased, there is still significant requirements for the operator (the pilots) to program, run, and manage those 'automated' systems. There are also overrides in the event of malfunction, so if the automated system is not working correctly the pilots can either switch to a backup automated system, or utilize some sort of manual control.

[pylon]

So are we looking at potentially someone stole a frikkin 777? If this ends up being the case, it would be impossible to put the thing into any kind of service with all the serial numbers, etc. The second this thing went in for any maintenance whatsoever, it would be found out.

However, if this plane was in fact 'stolen' and the thieves would be callous enough to dispose of 200+ people to obtain it, what would the end game of having a Intercontinental Wide Body in your possession truly be? My guess it would be a one use scenario.

/tinfoilhat

[JonDuke]

Originally Posted by pylon

...what would the end game of having a Intercontinental Wide Body in your possession truly be?...

I have a feeling they didn't want to plane and instead they wanted it's contents (whether people or cargo on board).

[nik-]

Does anything posted about this situation need /tinfoilhat ?

We are way into the crazy zone at this point. Totally the Tyson Zone.

[Gundo]

Soooooo there is a possibility that there is a 777 out there that someone can do with what they want? Possibly rig with explosives, dirty bomb or possible chemicals? Or the most likely senerio that it has crashed.

[JonDuke]

So...the plane flew (or submitted signals) for 6 more hours (8am Malaysian time)

Unable to confirm precise location of the plane when it last made contact with satellites. However, based on new data, the aviation authorities of Malaysia, and the international counterparts, the last communication of MH 370 was in 1 of 2 possible corridors: Northern (border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan to Northern Thailand) or Southern (from Indonesia to southern Indian Ocean).

Malaysian authorities focusing on crew and passengers onboard. All possibilities are still being researched. No confirmation on hijacking.

Ending operation in South China Sea and refocusing assets.

[nik-]

The thought of a rogue element of the Pakistani military hatching a hijacking plan to have a plane to use as a nuclear delivery machanism is kinda scary.

[nik-]

Malaysian PM says in the press conference that the plane was last detected at 8:11 am Malaysian time. Almost seven hours after losing contact. 7 hours!

Also stated that they are not definitively saying that the plane was hijacked but that they are starting to investigate passengers and crew.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rash-live.html