Line brawl & Crazy Torts - Aftermath

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by moon

He can start whoever he wants and start those 3 guys and SOB and Breen for the rest of the season if he wants.

What he can't do is start guys and have one of them ignore the FO and drop his gloves half a second after the puck dropped. Then having the other 4 guys fight as well.

What makes no sense is that people keep harping on him not being allowed to start who he wants when that had nothing to do with the fine.

Finally someone who understands...

Hartley is responsible for his players actions. That's how the NHL is governed.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Finally someone who understands...

Hartley is responsible for his players actions. That's how the NHL is governed.

I knew because of how it looked that Hartley would get the fine. But the fact is, Westgarth dropped them because Bieksa stepped up to take the faceoff. Tortorella and Bieksa are equally at fault for what happend as Hartley and Westgarth are because a defenceman has no more reason to take an opening faceoff than a goon winger does.

And even then, Hartley really only got fined because Bieksa is a coward.

[foshizzle11]

Jim Rome was just talking about Torts and saying things like "Wake up John, you can't fight an entire NHL roster." Any press is good press from a national market in the US?

He said "that was incredible, even for that guy. What were you going to do? Fight the entire time?" So funny.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by fotze

Ya, I believe the Flames players were sent out there to fight. In a court of law, yes Hartley would probably be found innocent, but the NHL does not have to have the same burden of proof.

I said to my wife as they were getting set for the draw 'the Flames coach (because she wouldn't know who Hartley is) is going to get suspended for this'. I think he got off as light as he did because he """"""technically"""""" didn't do anything wrong.

I just don't believe Westgarth et al were going to play a normal non-fisticuff shift no matter the players who lined up against them.

I agree with you, but they would've picked their spots. At no point were the Sedins in any danger. Hartley's intent was to have his fourth line "set the tone", but that actually happens frequently, so I don't see the problem.

However, Hartley has to be held responsible for starting the snowball that rolled downhill

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by fotze

Ya, I believe the Flames players were sent out there to fight. In a court of law, yes Hartley would probably be found innocent, but the NHL does not have to have the same burden of proof.

I said to my wife as they were getting set for the draw 'the Flames coach (because she wouldn't know who Hartley is) is going to get suspended for this'. I think he got off as light as he did because he """"""technically"""""" didn't do anything wrong.

I just don't believe Westgarth et al were going to play a normal non-fisticuff shift no matter the players who lined up against them.

I don't dissagree with you on what the reason they were on the ice was. I actually don't think they were sent out to fight explicitly, but those guys know there roles. That said, I don't think it should not be allowed to start you 4th line, because at the end of the day it does take 2 to tango, Vancouver didn't have to oblige.

The only way I think Hartley should be found guilty would in the circumstance where the Nucks didn't respond, and our guys still throw down with un-willing combatants. Then you have to blame Hartley, and then you know he likely instructed his players to scrap.

As it played out, the only thing that was "wrong" on Saturday was Torts coming over to the Flames locker room, and that's all that should be punished.

[Chip Hilton]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

I hope next time Flames/Canucks meet, Hartley starts the fourth line (with an actual Centerman) and instructs them explicitly NOT to scrum or fight at all on that first shift. Lulz would be had.

Actually, I am certain that the next time the Canucks play in Calgary, this *will* happen. The Canucks will start their first, second or third line and Hartley will match with the Flames' tough guys, instructing them as you say. This will enable Hartley to say "See, there was no intention of anything happening on January 18 and nothing *would* have happened had Torts simply not put out the Canucks' tough guys."

[zuluking]

The reason for the fine really ticks me off. Canuck fans and other idiots are all fawning over Bieksa for protecting the 6'6" meathead AHL fighter from breaking a nail in his first NHL game. Yet Westgarth is the one stepping up to the faceoff in place of B. Jones (who is the center on that line) for one reason: to protect him from having to fight the 6'6" meathead AHL fighter. The fact that Laine already smacked Jones around in an AHL game makes it an even more compelling reason for Westgarth to step up. That is team solidarity right there - that is looking out for a teammate. For all those that keep going on about the number of faceoffs that Westgarth has taken and how he was there to fight, the response is "Kellan Laine. Period." The only reason Westgarth is at the dot. Any other Vancouver lineup on the ice, and B. Jones is taking the faceoff.

Bieksa, the moron, is only taking the faceoff so he can goad Westgarth into a penalty. He had no intention of fighting, but you can bet that's not what he was saying at the dot. It would have worked if he hadn't gone off to pick a fight he thought he could win (which he didn't anyway). And how did Bieksa's paternal protector move end up for Laine at the end of the day? Laine got his nose punched in by Westgarth anyway. Nice protecting, Bieksa, real nice...

Anyway, the fact that Hartley is fined due to Westgarth is a massive joke. My respect for Westgarth went up significantly on how he handled the situation and himself. This fine stinks!

[jschick88]

Not sure where to put this.... Canucks and Oilers play tonight.

@EdmontonOilers I don't think these teams have liked each other for a very long time, and I don't think that's ever going to change." - Eakins on EDM/VAN

@SportsnetSpec Luke Gazdic on VAN: "I don't think a lot of people like that team. I grew up in ONT. These are the games I circle on my calendar."

@SportsnetSpec Gazdic: "That guy Sestito has been running around."

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by zuluking

The reason for the fine really ticks me off. Canuck fans and other idiots are all fawning over Bieksa for protecting the 6'6" meathead AHL fighter from breaking a nail in his first NHL game. Yet Westgarth is the one stepping up to the faceoff in place of B. Jones (who is the center on that line) for one reason: to protect him from having to fight the 6'6" meathead AHL fighter. The fact that Laine already smacked Jones around in an AHL game makes it an even more compelling reason for Westgarth to step up.
!

can't agree with you more. I think it was clear from the clip posted earlier, in the way Lain charged in and instantly started punching an unsuspecting Jones while he was bent over, that he does not follow the same code as guys like big Ern and Westgarth.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

can't agree with you more. I think it was clear from the clip posted earlier, in the way Lain charged in and instantly started punching an unsuspecting Jones while he was bent over, that he does not follow the same code as guys like big Ern and Westgarth.

It was his first game and, unfortunately, he plays for Vancouver.

The only code they know of is to fall over as soon as possible.

[Ashasx]

MacLean saying on Hockeycentral that $25,000 equates to a month's salary for Hartley. How is that possible when Tortorella is losing some 60k for only 2 weeks suspension? How much more is Tortorella making than Hartley?

He also said that the Flames were lucky that McGrattan "contained" himself in the hallway. wtf? Does he know who McGrattan is?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

MacLean saying on Hockeycentral that $25,000 equates to a month's salary for Hartley. How is that possible when Tortorella is losing some 60k for only 2 weeks suspension? How much more is Tortorella making than Hartley?

... I seriously doubt that Hartley only makes 300k while Tortorella makes 2m.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

can't agree with you more. I think it was clear from the clip posted earlier, in the way Lain charged in and instantly started punching an unsuspecting Jones while he was bent over, that he does not follow the same code as guys like big Ern and Westgarth.

Jones did just run one of the Canucks from behind into the end boards on that play, it wasn't as though there was a regular puck battle and then Lain out of no where started to pound on Jones.

Hartley put the fourth line out to fight, there is no doubt about that, he got a fine for that and rightfully so. Tortorella put his goons out to fight as well, he got a fine for that as well. Tortorella was obviously an idiot for trying to fight the entire team or whatever he was doing in the hall. He looked pretty stupid more than anything.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

MacLean saying on Hockeycentral that $25,000 equates to a month's salary for Hartley. How is that possible when Tortorella is losing some 60k for only 2 weeks suspension? How much more is Tortorella making than Hartley?

He also said that the Flames were lucky that McGrattan "contained" himself in the hallway. wtf? Does he know who McGrattan is?

It's absolutely baffling to me how many times I'll hear or read these media people call guys like McGrattan or Westgarth "thugs," "knuckle-draggers," "goons," and "meatheads." As if they're unstable mental patients ready to go off at any second.

I mean, it insults me just hearing those things come from radio hosts and "journalists" and they're not even directed at me.

[Chip Hilton]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

can't agree with you more. I think it was clear from the clip posted earlier, in the way Lain charged in and instantly started punching an unsuspecting Jones while he was bent over, that he does not follow the same code as guys like big Ern and Westgarth.

Is that the same unsuspecting Jones who had just run the Utica defenceman headfirst into the boards with a dirty and dangerous hit? Are you suggesting that Westgarth would have responded any differently?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

MacLean saying on Hockeycentral that $25,000 equates to a month's salary for Hartley. How is that possible when Tortorella is losing some 60k for only 2 weeks suspension? How much more is Tortorella making than Hartley?

Originally Posted by devo22

... I seriously doubt that Hartley only makes 300k while Tortorella makes 2m.

Actually I wouldnt be too surprised. As I understood it when the 'Great Coach Swap of ought 13' occurred, Torts and Vigneault are two of the highest paid coaches in the league. Granted, $300K for Hartley does seem low.

Heres a mostly incomplete list of salaries for coaches. It seems that Torts does make $2M.

http://sportsgmtalk.wordpress.com/he...acts-salaries/

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by jschick88

Not sure where to put this.... Canucks and Oilers play tonight.

@EdmontonOilers I don't think these teams have liked each other for a very long time, and I don't think that's ever going to change." - Eakins on EDM/VAN

@SportsnetSpec Luke Gazdic on VAN: "I don't think a lot of people like that team. I grew up in ONT. These are the games I circle on my calendar."

@SportsnetSpec Gazdic: "That guy Sestito has been running around."

Perron called out the Oilers after the last Canucks game for backing down too much and getting pushed around

I think they wanted someone to go after Kassian for the Gagner high stick injury

I expect them to do something

[Galakanokis]

Do not agree that Jones ran the guy. The D man went down trying to stop and Jones almost falls over him. You can see he clearly stops and does not go after the puck Street they hit the boards. It almost almost appears as if he is checking on him when he is jumped.

Hartley put the 4 th line out, period, end of story. No way they fight unless Tortorella puts out the players he does and the canucks do exactly what they did. Hartley played Tortorella and he bought it hook line and sinker. The reason Torts is mad is he knows he got played. If he was so concerned for his precious rookie he had many many options sitting along the bench.

[Stanley]

I guess it all comes down to who lined up at the FO, really. Westgarth gets in there and drops 'em before the puck even hits the ice which made it look worse.

I mean, if B. Jones and Lain stayed at the FO and then a rumble ensued, then I would seriously question the fine but...

Overall I understand the fine for Hartley, he knew what he was doing...but it's a fine line.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Perron called out the Oilers after the last Canucks game for backing down too much and getting pushed around

I think they wanted someone to go after Kassian for the Gagner high stick injury

I expect them to do something

Its okay, the worst Dallas will do is maybe skate onto the ice himself and probably hug it out with Sestito.