Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its no secret that Sutter has a shelf-life, just as Hartley did.

I recall most of the players loved Hartley but you cant run players like rented mules and put them away wet forever. The effectiveness has a limit.

Absolutely but I think there's ample evidence that Hartley could be a jerk to some players especially if he didn't like them. Darryl wasn't like that as if you worked hard you would play. I don't recall a lot of players ever saying they hated Darryl. They may have hated the whip being cracked constantly but I feel most players always respect him while plenty hated Hartley.

Originally Posted by redforever

All coaches push their players or should...some harder than others. Scotty Bowman pushed real hard too.

In the end, you look at the big picture. Pretty well all coaches have a shelf life so which coach is optimum for the shelf life that coach exhibits?

I never said he couldn't turn the Flames around. I have no doubt he would have this team competing harder and getting better results. I was just surprised to see that level of frankness from a guy that was a Sutter favorite.

[GioforPM]

Reg on the morning show today certainly suggested a bunch of players didn’t like Sutter at all, and that he actually was hurting their game in the last couple years. Particularly he mentioned Brown.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Reg on the morning show today certainly suggested a bunch of players didn’t like Sutter at all, and that he actually was hurting their game in the last couple years. Particularly he mentioned Brown.

The guy won 2 fricking Stanley Cups. I would trade in our player friendly coach for a player hated coach any time of the day if it gives us a couple of Cups...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Firebot

The guy won 2 fricking Stanley Cups. I would trade in our player friendly coach for a player hated coach any time of the day if it gives us a couple of Cups...

I do t disagree. Just quoting Regher.

[1qqaaz]

He also said that Sutter respects players who stand up to him.
Seems like his dressing rooms have interesting dynamics to say the least.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Look at the Flames home record, where the home coach has the advantage of last change. The Flames record is abysmal. Pretty obvious the issue there.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by New Era

Look at the Flames home record, where the home coach has the advantage of last change. The Flames record is abysmal. Pretty obvious the issue there.

Athletic article today showing that Gulutzan rolls 4 line more than any coach in the league: https://theathletic.com/199345/2018/...glen-gulutzan/

GG simply doesn't take advantage of these things.

The theory is that rolling 4 lines when you're down in the 3rd period ensures that your top 6 isn't tired when you eventually get a powerplay.

Problem is the Flames have had the worst 4th line in the league this year.

Another problem is that the powerplay is coached by Dave Cameron.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Problem is the Flames have had the worst 4th line in the league this year.

are you sure this isn't GG's sneaky plan to expose the 4th line for what it is and force personnel changes by trade/buyout/call-up? if he hid that nasty line like traditional wisdom dictates, that significantly increases its chances of staying intact for the whole season...

[Enoch Root]

Flames have one of the worst, if not the worst fourth lines in the league.

Gulutzan plays our fourth line more than any other coach.

Alrighty then.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Flames have one of the worst, if not the worst fourth lines in the league.

Gulutzan plays our fourth line more than any other coach.

Alrighty then.

Trust in the system. Whatever the hell it is.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

He also said that Sutter respects players who stand up to him.
Seems like his dressing rooms have interesting dynamics to say the least.

the morning show today with Reg on and Warrener there, talking about Sutter and then Kopitar was simply awesome. Such interesting radio to listen to and it was honestly the best show I'd heard of theirs in like over a year.

I think the key was no Boomer, who really just doesn't seem interested in talking about sports to be honest. It'd be nice if they actually talked about the Flames once in awhile with Rhett there. I find I listen probably like, maybe 25% of the time I used to. Used to be everyday, now it's like... maybe once a week. Maybe.

Today was great though. More of that please!

[stone hands]

boomer is terrible and i'd love pinder and rhett in the morning, but pinder is awful at hosting so we are unfortunately stuck with long stories about stuff nobody cares about

legitimately the only time boomer made me laugh was him and rhett talking about vodka beep

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Being a credible team has absolutely nothing to do with how long you keep coaches. Credible teams hired the right coach in the first place. The Penguins skipped a beat when they hired the wrong guy in Johnston. Rather than waste another season or two of Crosby & Malkin’s prime hoping for their coach to turn it around they cut bait, got a better coach and won two cups opposed to zero they would have won under Johnston.

Look I haven't been overly posting in this thread of late because I don't want to beat the same drum and recycle the same crap but lets take a look at the roster today compared to when Treliving took over. It looks considerably better on paper today so you can argue he's done a commendable job improving the talent year over year. The issue is that while better on paper we simply haven't seen the results on the ice consistently. Maybe myself and others (including the GM who traded his 2018 futures for a veteran defenseman) overrated the talent of the team to an extent but I do know this roster is too good to be toiling with the likes of the Canucks, Oilers, Avalanche in the standings and it's too good to be a below .500 team 5 on 5 for the past two seasons. Even the most optimistic of fans surely must realize that it's not working and something has to change.

I don’t disagree. BT would tell you he hired the right guy at the time, after blowing a season on BH who was also not the right guy according to our gm.

By firing GG, BT undermines himself. If GG is the wrong guy, fine. But so too was BH and after an extensive search GG was BT’s boy. I’m not sure he can keep blaming the coach. His own record is not perfect after all.

My point was that in order to attract managerial talent your team needs to show it gives people time. Or you end up with unproven guys like BT and GG and lifestyle execs like BB. So firing GG likely results in a less experienced GG type guy. A more senior guy won’t come in with the whole KK and BB thing hanging over them. So we got these guys because of all the weirdness that preceded them. Therefore ditching GG and maybe BT gets you exactly where we were a few years ago.

So it’s a more profound mess than just the coach. It might actually be better to get rid of all the guys that hired the wrong undererlings. Maybe this should be a top to bottom exec housecleaning.

I think BT does the safe thing and stays the course. Protecting himself in the process. He needs to work even harde to make his boy successful.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I think BT does the safe thing and stays the course. Protecting himself in the process. He needs to work even harde to make his boy successful.

I don't know if I want a GM that's going to put his job ahead of what's best for the team. I'm also not sure what else he can do to make his boy more successful. He's almost all out of draft picks to move. The only thing more depressing about this team currently sitting in the 10th draft position is actually looking at how many picks the Flames own in the next two drafts. Darryl Sutter got raked over the coals for trading the majority of his 2nd round picks but Treliving has gutted the Flames draft cupboard for a team neck and neck with the Canucks. This team is in worse shape than most Flames realize when you consider the futures that have been traded and the resulting yield on the ice. Canucks and Oilers are at least going to get the opportunity to draft a handful of decent players following their seasons while Flames will be sitting on their hands at the draft table.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't know if I want a GM that's going to put his job ahead of what's best for the team. I'm also not sure what else he can do to make his boy more successful. He's almost all out of draft picks to move. The only thing more depressing about this team currently sitting in the 10th draft position is actually looking at how many picks the Flames own in the next two drafts. Darryl Sutter got raked over the coals for trading the majority of his 2nd round picks but Treliving has gutted the Flames draft cupboard for a team neck and neck with the Canucks. This team is in worse shape than most Flames realize when you consider the futures that have been traded and the resulting yield on the ice. Canucks and Oilers are at least going to get the opportunity to draft a handful of decent players following their seasons while Flames will be sitting on their hands at the draft table.

All we can hope is the Flames rip it up starting tonight against the Kings. If they can play .650-.700 hockey the rest of way everything will be fine. Im dreaming though.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

All we can hope is the Flames rip it up starting tonight against the Kings. If they can play .650-.700 hockey the rest of way everything will be fine. Im dreaming though.

You aren't dreaming. There's still a half season left. It can happen. Will it happen? I don't know but that's why they play the games.

[Travis Munroe]

I think the GG supporters need to realize that the non GG supporters are not hoping the flames fall into the basement. While I don't think GG is the coach to take this team to the next level, I would rather be proven wrong than right.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

I think the GG supporters need to realize that the non GG supporters are not hoping the flames fall into the basement. While I don't think GG is the coach to take this team to the next level, I would rather be proven wrong than right.

There's been a ridiculous post or two around these parts with posters wishing failure. Even one dolt who said he'd want the coach fired even if they made the Cup final.

I want him fired, but I'd much rather see him turn this disaster around, qualify, and go deep in the playoffs. I literally have no hope for the latter though.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't know if I want a GM that's going to put his job ahead of what's best for the team. I'm also not sure what else he can do to make his boy more successful. He's almost all out of draft picks to move. The only thing more depressing about this team currently sitting in the 10th draft position is actually looking at how many picks the Flames own in the next two drafts. Darryl Sutter got raked over the coals for trading the majority of his 2nd round picks but Treliving has gutted the Flames draft cupboard for a team neck and neck with the Canucks. This team is in worse shape than most Flames realize when you consider the futures that have been traded and the resulting yield on the ice. Canucks and Oilers are at least going to get the opportunity to draft a handful of decent players following their seasons while Flames will be sitting on their hands at the draft table.

Treliving has been the GM of the Flames for the past 4 drafts.

His first draft he inherited a 1st and 2 2nds and used them all on prospects. During that draft there were rumors the Flames were trying to acquire the Coyotes and Hurricanes top picks for taking on Ribero and Ward. Those deals fell though.

2015 he makes some trades and ends up with 2 picks in the 2nd round and acquired a former top 10 pick who was just turning 22.

2016 he drafts in the first round and twice in the 2nd.

2017 he drafts in the first round and traded the 2nd for another 22 year old former first rounder.

Thanks to the fact the Flames have drafted 6 guys in the 2nd round during the first 3 drafts Treliving was here he did not fit the cupboard. In fact he stocked the cupboard full before parting with the picks. No one should be knocking the Hamilton trade as that was set picks for a young star player at a key position.

I also believe the Flames will recoup 2nd rounders along the way. Depending on how the season ends I wouldn’t t be shocked if Treliving goes to the draft and dangles one of our top 4 D for either young players or draft picks.

[Badgers Nose]

Yeah, I think as the teams fortunes have improved over the years BT has switched from build to go for it mode. That’s the right call. I agree they have a great prospect pool and can survive a couple of years worth of aggressive trades involving future picks.

I guess one way BT could help GG is by making the roster a bit more fool proof and dealing with non NHL players like Stajan and F Hamilton. I guess that’s the shake up.

I’m sure GG makes it to the end of the season. If flames fail there will be a new coach. If they fail next season there will be a new GM at the start of 19/20.

I don’t think those are crazy predictions.