Brad Treliving needs to go

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

PLD to Winnipeg is one that jumps to mind. Jackets knew they were in trouble with the player and didn't wait to see if they could smooth things out. You're seeing this happen with RFAs too as teams are concerned about signing players. Just from this spring, Debrincat to Ottawa, Fiala to Los Angeles, Husso to Detroit, as examples. Get what you can and don't leave yourself open to the risk of dealing from a position of diminished returns or nothing at all.

Are these all really star players? They are all really good players, for sure, but I think players that are also managed differently than the likes of Tavares, Pietrangelo, Gaudreau, Stamkos, etc.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well they traded him a year before he became a UFA. Trading an RFA is very similar to trading a guy who is under contract (the team controls his rights more or less). Fiala fits the mode of trading a key piece before it walks.

It really depends on what you know about the player. If Tkachuk was on the block now, as a GM I'd be pretty wary of the return I offered, knowing Tkachuk's past negotiations and the way his dad operated. I'd be trading for a negotiation headache.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

At the end of the day BT has had 8 years here. And yes the team won a few division banners.

But the team has also suffered bad coaching hires and has won what 2 playoff series. Team is about to be pushed in to a rebuild/Re-tool and I just think it's time for a new guy to steer the ship.

Hires? or Hire?

Gulutzan was a misfire on an up and coming young coach. Cost them two years for sure.

But Bill Peters had a pretty solid resume and coached them to the conference crown in the single season before things from the past came out and took him down.

Gulutzan
Peters
Sutter

I only see one bad "hire" in that group.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well they traded him a year before he became a UFA. Trading an RFA is very similar to trading a guy who is under contract (the team controls his rights more or less). Fiala fits the mode of trading a key piece before it walks.

Sure, you can have one on a technicality that he was one year from UFA if he signed his QO instead of signing any length of contract.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Before I start my post, which of course I’ll say is 100% opinion, I’ll anchor on a few things I believe (again only opinion)

- I believe being a GM in a small Canadian market is 100% the hardest GM gig in the NHL with the absolute most cards stacked against you.
- I also believe we have an ownership group that does not have an appetite for tear downs and long stretches of rebuild.
- I also believe we an owner willing to spend to the cap which is an advantage for Tre.

So that said above, this is my opinion on Tre’s work.
- While not void of mistakes (no GM is) I think Tre has done a far better than average job building this roster up to this point, considering the assets he had coming in, and our market. He knows the limitations of Calgary, and has excelled building this team through the right avenues.
- where I do believe he’s not done well, as many have said, is pairing up that well constructed roster with the right coach. But he’s seems to have learned on that front.

So for those that want him gone, I’d like to ask, what is the reason. Is it because “someone must pay” for the fact this chapter of the Flames has now been forced to come to an end, earlier than desired and without the full success desired? Or is it because looking forward you honestly believe the next person will be a better GM?

Evidently I think he’s a pretty good GM. He’s also a young GM, this is his first gig. As mentioned, he’s not perfect he’s made mistakes, but my guess is he’s learned from them and gained experience. Meaning he’s likely getting better at his job.

Do you actually think there are better options out there, or do we just want a symbolic sword to fall on for todays disappointment?

I don’t remember everything since being a Flames fan as a kid, but IMO BT is the best GM we’ve had since Fletcher (not at all comparable eras) and I think it would be a big mistake to not charge him with this next chapter.

Someone must pay. That is always the case. Pay close attention to comments when something doesn't go right. People want to place blame and want to fire anyone and everyone in sight so they can feel good. It's part and parcel with today's cancel culture.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hires? or Hire?

Gulutzan was a misfire on an up and coming young coach. Cost them two years for sure.

But Bill Peters had a pretty solid resume and coached them to the conference crown in the single season before things from the past came out and took him down.

Gulutzan
Peters
Sutter

I only see one bad "hire" in that group.

Peters had never made the playoffs , team play dropped off down the stretch, and fell absolutely flat in the playoffs

Lots of people questioned the Peters hire and were not wrong

Things weren’t going well before he left in disgrace

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Buff

Someone must pay. That is always the case. Pay close attention to comments when something doesn't go right. People want to place blame and want to fire anyone and everyone in sight so they can feel good. It's part and parcel with today's cancel culture.

I also think it has to do with people's anxiety about lacking control. It is much more comfortable to imagine that the simple difference between a championship calibre team and one that is not is in management. It is much less comfortable to think about the thousands of mitigating factors beyond everyone's control which interfere with success.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hires? or Hire?

Gulutzan was a misfire on an up and coming young coach. Cost them two years for sure.

But Bill Peters had a pretty solid resume and coached them to the conference crown in the single season before things from the past came out and took him down.

Gulutzan
Peters
Sutter

I only see one bad "hire" in that group.

Hiring a coach that another team has under contract probably should have put up a few red flags. But sure he did have 1 good season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Peters had never made the playoffs , team play dropped off down the stretch, and fell absolutely flat in the playoffs

Lots of people questioned the Peters hire and were not wrong

Things weren’t going well before he left in disgrace

I just don't see a 100+ point regular season as a failed hire.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Hiring a coach that another team has under contract probably should have put up a few red flags. But sure he did have 1 good season.

?????

Coaches get fired and re-hired ALL THE TIME. If you want someone with NHL experience, it's very likely they were recently fired with an active contract.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I just don't see a 100+ point regular season as a failed hire.

Sure, and he had a very good 3/4 of a season

And I don’t see a guy who had never made the playoffs as having a solid resume

I didn’t like the hire, and like I say, his results were bad in the playoffs and the year he left in disgrace, things weren’t going well.

He kind of reminded me a bit of Brent in terms of results. When he made the coaching adjustments that he believed were needed in order to win, the team got worse. Frankly as good as the regular season was, you could argue that the gaps on his resume were exposed

You don’t consider it a failure, fine.

I don’t consider it as a success for the GM, with the full benefit of hindsight

I am still in the camp that he wasted key years with bad coaching hires

[sketchyt]

One heck of a gamble by Treliving that Johnny would stay. Leaves with zero assets for the club in what is a franchise-altering mistake.

I dunno, I lose on a big bet like that at work and I'd be getting a paddlin' on my way out the door.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

?????

Coaches get fired and re-hired ALL THE TIME. If you want someone with NHL experience, it's very likely they were recently fired with an active contract.

He wasn't fired. He was signed while under contract with the Canes. The Canes were just happy to get out of the contract for free.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

One heck of a gamble by Treliving that Johnny would stay. Leaves with zero assets for the club in what is a franchise-altering mistake.

I dunno, I lose on a big bet like that at work and I'd be getting a paddlin' on my way out the door.

In most organizations even senior managers don't have the ability to make business altering bets in isolation. Their responsibility is to make sure the risks and opportunities are understood and that is communicated to their stakeholders, including a plan for how that risk will be managed.

The group of decisions makes than makes a call on how to proceed.

If the information communicated was false or there were errors in the execution. But I would be stunned if BT made this decision on his own. Therefore how do you fire him for this?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In most organizations even senior managers don't have the ability to make business altering bets in isolation. Their responsibility is to make sure the risks and opportunities are understood and that is communicated to their stakeholders, including a plan for how that risk will be managed.

The group of decisions makes than makes a call on how to proceed.

If the information communicated was false or there were errors in the execution. But I would be stunned if BT made this decision on his own. Therefore how do you fire him for this?

Treliving himself has said that the buck stops with him. A team can fire a GM at any time, for general performance issues, not even needing a significant event

How do you do it? Easy. “Thanks for your contributions Brad. We are moving a different direction. You are relieved of your duties effective immediately”

Quite easy to fire a GM, if the owners want to

[Manhattanboy]

Conroy too? Even he’s probably at a loss for words right now.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In most organizations even senior managers don't have the ability to make business altering bets in isolation. Their responsibility is to make sure the risks and opportunities are understood and that is communicated to their stakeholders, including a plan for how that risk will be managed.

The group of decisions makes than makes a call on how to proceed.

If the information communicated was false or there were errors in the execution. But I would be stunned if BT made this decision on his own. Therefore how do you fire him for this?

GM can’t be fired because they are not the only one making decisions? That’s a dumb take

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In most organizations even senior managers don't have the ability to make business altering bets in isolation. Their responsibility is to make sure the risks and opportunities are understood and that is communicated to their stakeholders, including a plan for how that risk will be managed.

The group of decisions makes than makes a call on how to proceed.

If the information communicated was false or there were errors in the execution. But I would be stunned if BT made this decision on his own. Therefore how do you fire him for this?

His job is quite literally to manage the roster and mitigate risk - he failed miserably at this and should be under the gun. Taking this down to the wire, when it was clearly not going to happen is an unmitigated disaster that is going to set this franchise back years.

GMs routinely take care of their star players well in advance, in order to avoid these types of disasters. It takes two to tango in order to work out the extension, but I sincerely find it hard to believe the Flames did not have an extremely strong indication this was going to happen 20-30 days, let alone a year ago.

Like come on, someone who is agonizing over this type of situation (Johnny) is not often doing so because they intend on staying. I still contend that any massive contract like this should never be left to the 11th hour. The Flames and Treliving should have been full on this last Summer.

Terrible day to be a Flames fan, which is made even worse by the fact that we finally had a season we've all been waiting for and now any thought of a repeat is dashed.

[liamenator]

I posted this in the Gaudreau thread but this is maybe a better place for it. One thing that seems clear is that most of the brainpower in the NHL is with the agents. They just keep taking the old-school hockey dudes to the cleaners. They are cutthroat in using every possible avenue and platform to get the best deal for their clients -- media leaks, PR, manipulating emotional dimensions of fan bases and organizations, etc. It's all on the table.

GMs and organizations seem too often to rely on abstract concepts of loyalty, legacy, camaraderie, but those are no longer the primary currency in professional sports (if they ever were). This is my single biggest critique of Treliving. He keeps trying to operate in a world that no longer exists, and then appears totally rattled and personally wounded when people act contrary to his expectations. Hence all the leaks over the years of "we were right there..."; it's always someone else's actions scuttling a deal at the last minute. He fixes mistakes but doesn't seem to learn from them very well.

I wonder if we'll see more teams try to make Kent Hughes, Julian BriseBois-type appointments in the coming GM hiring cycles. Types that have a different orientation to team building, asset management, cultivating relationships, etc. that help them carve out competitive advantages. This team could use that kind of approach; in a small-market Canadian city that just doesn't have the cache to woo players to play or stay, you need to find other ways to tilt the balance in your favour. I'm no longer convinced this management group has the creativity to do so.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

GM can’t be fired because they are not the only one making decisions? That’s a dumb take

Nothing dumb about what he laid out ... it's logic.

They could still fire him though. They may want to lay some blame (fall guy), or they may just want a different voice in the room.

But Jiri suggesting that Treliving didn't make this decision alone, and that based on that it's unlikely they fire the guy for carrying out exactly what they signed off on isn't dumb at all.