Brad Treliving needs to go

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Every Gm in the league would do the same. A contending team doesn't dump their star player. Doesn't throw them under the bus or use an arbitrary deadline, but instead works through the 11th hour to try to get a deal done.

Lots of reasons to dislike Treliving, lots of reasons to try a different guy, but this is not one.

No, every team in the league does not do what you are suggesting. The good teams know when it is time to cut bait and not allow the great white whale to scuttle the ship. You're correct in they won't normally do it mid-season, but they do recognize when it is time to move a star player if they know the player is unlikely to be there long-term. Treliving should have moved Gaudreau last summer at the draft, before the NTC kicked in. That would have been the pragmatic thing to do and set the team up for greater long-term success. Would we have missed out on last year's run? We can't say for certain because we don't know what would have come back in a deal. If we had moved Gaudreau to Philly for what was rumored (Konecny, Gostisbehere, and their first in this past draft) we may have been in a pretty good position to remain competitive and had some pieces that could move the team forward. Would it have been ultimately what the fans would have wanted out of Gaudreau? Probably not, especially when using hindsight to see the type of season he just had, but had he been traded there is no guarantee that season would have manifested either. It was a mistake and now we have absolutely nothing to show for Gaudreau and a massive hole in the team where there is nothing in the system to replace the player. Not good asset management.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

This isn’t entirely true
There are several examples of high end players now getting both very high AAV and a short run way to ufa status
It uses to be you get one or the other
Now top players are getting both

Can you provide an example of a player getting a 3 year deal with high AAV and three year term like we gave MT.

I cant recall any

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

By these measures, yes, it's time to Fire Brad Treliving.

Weird. I carefully went through your list and drew the opposite conclusion that Treliving is still the right man for the job.

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[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

His handling? He made a good offer last summer and Gaudreau didn’t want to negotiate a new contract given his mediocre numbers. After that they had a great season and Treliving made a huge offer which will be more money than any other team can match. Gaudreau decided to go play out east and save travel time and be close to relatives.

People who say he should have locked him up are forgetting basic contract principles. You need two willing parties, not just one.

Well regardless of whether it was Brad’s fault the fact of the matter is that the team has never had a greater playoff record than his first year on the job. That was the year they had their best playoff winning percentage. That fact is likely to remain true now for a couple more years. I think when you get into decade two and the best playoff year a team has had in your tenure is under the team you inherited, you may consider looking at a getting a new GM. Losing your franchise player is really just the icing on the cake at this point.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

No, every team in the league does not do what you are suggesting. The good teams know when it is time to cut bait and not allow the great white whale to scuttle the ship. You're correct in they won't normally do it mid-season, but they do recognize when it is time to move a star player if they know the player is unlikely to be there long-term. Treliving should have moved Gaudreau last summer at the draft, before the NTC kicked in. That would have been the pragmatic thing to do and set the team up for greater long-term success. Would we have missed out on last year's run? We can't say for certain because we don't know what would have come back in a deal. If we had moved Gaudreau to Philly for what was rumored (Konecny, Gostisbehere, and their first in this past draft) we may have been in a pretty good position to remain competitive and had some pieces that could move the team forward. Would it have been ultimately what the fans would have wanted out of Gaudreau? Probably not, especially when using hindsight to see the type of season he just had, but had he been traded there is no guarantee that season would have manifested either. It was a mistake and now we have absolutely nothing to show for Gaudreau and a massive hole in the team where there is nothing in the system to replace the player. Not good asset management.

Who are the recent examples of other GM's trading star players a year before their contract expires, eliminating this possibility?
Perhaps I'm not remembering

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Weird. I carefully went through your list and drew the opposite conclusion that Treliving isstill the right man for the job.

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Just more proof that Treliving should be fired.

[SuperMatt18]

I don’t think the Konecny, Gostisbehere, 1st deal was ever actually a rumor though…that was more CP speculation of what it would cost.

Look what Sam Reinhart got in a trade: 1st + Levi (Prospect)

That would have been the market for Gaudreau last year coming off two average, below PPG seasons.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

If we had moved Gaudreau to Philly for what was rumored (Konecny, Gostisbehere, and their first in this past draft) we may have been in a pretty good position to remain competitive and had some pieces that could move the team forward. .

Forgetting for a second how truly bad the Ghost is, this would have cost us some serious cap room, likely costing us our 5-6 dmen, who actually played quite well.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I got full view of plan a. No confidence at all that plan b will be successful. When they made the first presentation to Johnny he wasn't even in the room, they came in too low, and they focused on legacy instead of convincing Johnny they were building a better team. Bull####. Firing time.

Good info. When was the first presentation? After season end?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Who are the recent examples of other GM's trading star players a year before their contract expires, eliminating this possibility?
Perhaps I'm not remembering

PLD to Winnipeg is one that jumps to mind. Jackets knew they were in trouble with the player and didn't wait to see if they could smooth things out. You're seeing this happen with RFAs too as teams are concerned about signing players. Just from this spring, Debrincat to Ottawa, Fiala to Los Angeles, Husso to Detroit, as examples. Get what you can and don't leave yourself open to the risk of dealing from a position of diminished returns or nothing at all.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Can you provide an example of a player getting a 3 year deal with high AAV and three year term like we gave MT.

I cant recall any

I was referring to players now getting the shortest walk to UFA status which is what matters (I think) alongside high AAV.
teams aren't able to "buy" UFA years in the same way they used to
McDavid a notable (and odd) exception.
Matthews being a good example of what I'm describing as I think his 5 year contract walks him right to the earliest chance at UFA.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

PLD to Winnipeg is one that jumps to mind. Jackets knew they were in trouble with the player and didn't wait to see if they could smooth things out. You're seeing this happen with RFAs too as teams are concerned about signing players. Just from this spring, Debrincat to Ottawa, Fiala to Los Angeles, Husso to Detroit, as examples. Get what you can and don't leave yourself open to the risk of dealing from a position of diminished returns or nothing at all.

I wish this is how the Flames operated. I truly do. This organization needs to be more brutal about asset management and always assume the players will walk.
But given the pattern of these across several GMs I have a hard time blaming the GMs involved.
It sits above them in my view.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

PLD to Winnipeg is one that jumps to mind. Jackets knew they were in trouble with the player and didn't wait to see if they could smooth things out. You're seeing this happen with RFAs too as teams are concerned about signing players. Just from this spring, Debrincat to Ottawa, Fiala to Los Angeles, Husso to Detroit, as examples. Get what you can and don't leave yourself open to the risk of dealing from a position of diminished returns or nothing at all.

To be fair BT was proactive trading the likes of Hudler and Fox. But never high profile players. I agree that proactive asset management is preferable. But it is more common to Tavares or petrangelo situations.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

PLD to Winnipeg is one that jumps to mind. Jackets knew they were in trouble with the player and didn't wait to see if they could smooth things out. You're seeing this happen with RFAs too as teams are concerned about signing players. Just from this spring, Debrincat to Ottawa, Fiala to Los Angeles, Husso to Detroit, as examples. Get what you can and don't leave yourself open to the risk of dealing from a position of diminished returns or nothing at all.

Those are terrible examples, not even in the ball park.

Hell, PLD was traded because he asked for a trade and Chicago is rebuilding (don’t know if you notice the fire sale approach).

Husso and Fiala were both traded less than a month before they became UFAs, not a year.

Give a real example.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I wish this is how the Flames operated. I truly do. This organization needs to be more brutal about asset management and always assume the players will walk.
But given the pattern of these across several GMs I have a hard time blaming the GMs involved.
It sits above them in my view.

That could well be the case (I suspect it probably is) but it is pretty hard for the existing guy to reset expectations around these issues. He was presumably the guy in the room not really pushing back with an alternative viewpoint. Far easier for a new GM to come in and say “hey, you own the Calgary Flames. A small market team that will always have a hard time attracting UFA’s or even retaining your own players. Our path to success is to load up on young guys and make educated long term bets on some of them before they hit UFA”. Not sure if a new GM would have any success but I suspect they would have a better chance than the guy who has been in the room and gone along with the erroneous path for years now.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Those are terrible examples, not even in the ball park.

Hell, PLD was traded because he asked for a trade and Chicago is rebuilding (don’t know if you notice the fire sale approach).

Husso and Fiala were both traded less than a month before they became UFAs, not a year.

Give a real example.

Fiala was not becoming a UFA.

[Moneyhands23]

At the end of the day BT has had 8 years here. And yes the team won a few division banners.

But the team has also suffered bad coaching hires and has won what 2 playoff series. Team is about to be pushed in to a rebuild/Re-tool and I just think it's time for a new guy to steer the ship.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Fiala was not becoming a UFA.

Free agent, I’m acting lazy.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I was referring to players now getting the shortest walk to UFA status which is what matters (I think) alongside high AAV.
teams aren't able to "buy" UFA years in the same way they used to
McDavid a notable (and odd) exception.
Matthews being a good example of what I'm describing as I think his 5 year contract walks him right to the earliest chance at UFA.

And most agreed Matthew’s was a horrible contract by Toronto

It doesn’t happen except when GMs make a bad deal

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Free agent, I’m acting lazy.

Well they traded him a year before he became a UFA. Trading an RFA is very similar to trading a guy who is under contract (the team controls his rights more or less). Fiala fits the mode of trading a key piece before it walks.