Recommend (or don't) a movie thread v2

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I think Disney's content could be better if the social agenda was a little less front and center. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the message (inclusion and diversity in cherished stories that get a lot of eyeballs from young & impressionable audiences), it's just less fun when you can tell there was an MO/it was forced and that it came before creative decisions.

I thought they would moderate it a little after it first became a trend with new films and remakes (and for a time it was refreshing), but it's just ramped up more and sometimes I'm not sure if it isn't coming at the expense of the end product.

Now it's like Disney is petrified to release a film or show with a cast of white guys, or a hero movie where theres a strong male protagonist without a female character isn't portrayed as just as strong and capable. Not even saying a whitewashed cast is preferred, but each has its place based on the story, social context, etc. Sometimes stories are based in time periods where classes and racism existed, but it's being skewed away from historical accuracy in order to fit the casting memo that every new Disney product goes through.

If it fits the story and it's context where it feels like a natural fit and that the best casting choices were made for the script, then great. There are many examples of that. But if it's going to come across shoehorned at the cost of believability where it takes you out of the movie at many points, then it's costing the end product. And I'm a fan of getting to enjoy the best movies we can, even if not all of them pass the 21st century standards test with flying colours.

Disney (and other studios) certainly took the right initiative in recent years to move away from the what we saw through the '90s and even '00s, but I think there's such thing as taking anything a bit far.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I think Disney's content could be better if the social agenda was a little less front and center. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the message (inclusion and diversity in cherished stories that get a lot of eyeballs from young & impressionable audiences), it's just less fun when you can tell there was an MO/it was forced and that it came before creative decisions.

I thought they would moderate it a little after it first became a trend with new films and remakes (and for a time it was refreshing), but it's just ramped up more and sometimes I'm not sure if it isn't coming at the expense of the end product.

Now it's like Disney is petrified to release a film or show with a cast of white guys, or a hero movie where theres a strong male protagonist without a female character isn't portrayed as just as strong and capable. Not even saying a whitewashed cast is preferred, but each has its place based on the story, social context, etc. Sometimes stories are based in time periods where classes and racism existed, but it's being skewed away from historical accuracy in order to fit the casting memo that every new Disney product goes through.

If it fits the story and it's context where it feels like a natural fit and that the best casting choices were made for the script, then great. There are many examples of that. But if it's going to come across shoehorned at the cost of believability where it takes you out of the movie at many points, then it's costing the end product. And I'm a fan of getting to enjoy the best movies we can, even if not all of them pass the 21st century standards test with flying colours.

Disney (and other studios) certainly took the right initiative in recent years to move away from the what we saw through the '90s and even '00s, but I think there's such thing as taking anything a bit far.

I beg to differ.

To a completely normal, non-online person, these things wouldn't even register if the Culture War buffoons didn't pluck these things out of press releases and turn them into An Issue.

Strange World's point of contention is an extremely minor blip on the radar in the schema of the entire movie.

Hell, the Lightyear scene lasts 2 freaking seconds.

But there's money in outrage, so endless hay is made by pundits to try and drum up hate-dollars among reactionaries. They are controlling the narrative because we give them the air to breathe, not because Disney has more diverse narratives.

[Mr.Coffee]

I agree with Trent.

For me personally, like, we will have these conversations with our kids. We don't need Disney forcing it upon us when we are having a movie night. Little kids are curious so naturally when we watched Strange World it inevitably resulted in about 5,000 questions, mid-movie, about what being gay means and why, etc. etc. etc. And then you lose focus on the movie itself, miss key parts because you're trying to figure out how to explain to very young minds these fairly more-advanced topics. There is a huge difference when you show a 6 year old, vs. maybe a 10 or 12 year old, these types of topics, yet we all want to watch the movie... they're all part of the family... and like honestly- is this really Disney's place?

We just wanted to watch a movie, you know, to be entertained. Not end up in a giant philosophical / real discussion about human beings and sexuality or racism. It's not that those aren't very important discussions, or that kids shouldn't be taught and shown these things. Of course they will and we all figured out a bunch of this stuff over time, it's more that that's not why I watch a movie with my family, to then get into certain narratives foisted upon our family on very personal subjects by some company rather than on our own time, within our own family.

It just isn't really a topic that's necessary in a Disney movie that's made to target 5 year olds, and it creates unnecessary distraction for the actual story. Like what are they trying to achieve here, are they trying to tell a story and entertain you? Or are they trying to lead you down a path of enlightenment? Those are two critically different things. And then to have the pleasure of paying for that is also annoying.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

And that was the first time a kid ever asked a question mid movie about a topic they didn’t understand. Right.

Because the myriad of other topics kids don’t understand and ask questions about like death, marriage, divorce, sex, race, culture, history, animals, feelings, depression, life, aliens etc were all fine.

But gays? That’s a bridge too far.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

And that was the first time a kid ever asked a question mid movie about a topic they didn’t understand. Right.

Because the myriad of other topics kids don’t understand and ask questions about like death, marriage, divorce, sex, race, culture, history, animals, feelings, depression, life, aliens etc were all fine.

But gays? That’s a bridge too far.

You don’t have kids, do you?

Also, you missed the point. And no, not really, we don’t get into giant philosophical discussions about every single topic, no. Kind of a dumb and purposefully obtuse comment from you. But ya, I’m a bigot, yadda yadda yadda.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Lol.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Lol.

I agree, lol

[PsYcNeT]

As a parent, other parents make way too much over kids asking questions.

Yeah, it's annoying when you answer them and they ask the same question again 5 seconds later, but talking to them about important things -especially things that make you think about how important your answer should be- shouldn't be seen as onerous or a burden on your relaxation time.

Also lol at watching a movie with a kid under 6 as "relaxing".

[Yamer]

The benefit is that these films are beginning to normalize these depictions, viewpoints, and ideas. The goal is that within a generation these questions and confusions throughout the movie are handled akin to any other question because it's just everyday stuff. We just so happen to be one the first waves of humankind to experience it regarding LGBTQ+ persons present in children's entertainment.

It's already been entirely normalized in media directed at teens and adults. If we have grown adults saying they knew they felt different at a much younger age then it makes sense to introduce the concept that how they feel is entirely normal and a part of a larger world in which they belong and are accepted.

If your kids are inquisitive they are going to be asking questions about the most mundane stuff during a movie regardless. From my limited experience around my friends' and family's kids within that age-range it is hardly a philosophical discussion. Simple answers like "because they like/love each other" is enough for their developing minds.

I guess we could all go back to the Disney forumula of princesses in distress and the knight in shining armor, but we've seen how that doesn't exactly jive with modernity and female agency. Of course we still have people whinging about that, so you'll never appease everyone.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

As a parent, other parents make way too much over kids asking questions.

Yeah, it's annoying when you answer them and they ask the same question again 5 seconds later, but talking to them about important things -especially things that make you think about how important your answer should be- shouldn't be seen as onerous or a burden on your relaxation time.

Also lol at watching a movie with a kid under 6 as "relaxing".

That’s true haha

honestly it’s not really a big deal, it’s just maybe one reason that it isn’t landing with people. It seems forced, it really isn’t necessary, and I don’t think it actually adds anything to the movie or experience.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

That’s true haha

honestly it’s not really a big deal, it’s just maybe one reason that it isn’t landing with people. It seems forced, it really isn’t necessary, and I don’t think it actually adds anything to the movie or experience.

As noted by Yamer's post though, it's a part of everyday existence for a large swath of the world. Showing other people's experiences within a larger plot of a film (particularly when it's just part of the background for the characters and not a driving plot point) is important for normalization and acceptance.

How can we say to our kids that something is normal and not worth commentary if we go out of our way to pretend it doesn't happen or exist?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Yamer

The benefit is that these films are beginning to normalize these depictions, viewpoints, and ideas. The goal is that within a generation these questions and confusions throughout the movie are handled akin to any other question because it's just everyday stuff. We just so happen to be one the first waves of humankind to experience it regarding LGBTQ+ persons present in children's entertainment.

It's already been entirely normalized in media directed at teens and adults. If we have grown adults saying they knew they felt different at a much younger age then it makes sense to introduce the concept that how they feel is entirely normal and a part of a larger world in which they belong and are accepted.

If your kids are inquisitive they are going to be asking questions about the most mundane stuff during a movie regardless. From my limited experience around my friends' and family's kids within that age-range it is hardly a philosophical discussion. Simple answers like "because they like/love each other" is enough for their developing minds.

I guess we could all go back to the Disney forumula of princesses in distress and the knight in shining armor, but we've seen how that doesn't exactly jive with modernity and female agency. Of course we still have people whinging about that, so you'll never appease everyone.

Normalization of that stuff seems like a good thing to do. Maybe it's just in Disney's execution. Something feels off with the way they're approaching it.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Normalization of that stuff seems like a good thing to do. Maybe it's just in Disney's execution. Something feels off with the way they're approaching it.

This is a reasonable take. The way representation is shown is totally up for debate, but taking umbrage with the representation itself ain't it.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

That’s true haha

honestly it’s not really a big deal, it’s just maybe one reason that it isn’t landing with people. It seems forced, it really isn’t necessary, and I don’t think it actually adds anything to the movie or experience.

The entire idea that it is inconsequential to the plot, and that a young person is exploring fundamental feelings of attraction and love, makes it all the more hilarious.

If it didn't land because it was simply a mediocre movie (I was looking at my phone a lot), the only reason for it to "bomb" in such away is because some doofus complained to a school board and the culture war addicts needed their fix.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I agree with Trent.

For me personally, like, we will have these conversations with our kids. We don't need Disney forcing it upon us when we are having a movie night. Little kids are curious so naturally when we watched Strange World it inevitably resulted in about 5,000 questions, mid-movie, about what being gay means and why, etc. etc. etc. And then you lose focus on the movie itself, miss key parts because you're trying to figure out how to explain to very young minds these fairly more-advanced topics. There is a huge difference when you show a 6 year old, vs. maybe a 10 or 12 year old, these types of topics, yet we all want to watch the movie... they're all part of the family... and like honestly- is this really Disney's place?

We just wanted to watch a movie, you know, to be entertained. Not end up in a giant philosophical / real discussion about human beings and sexuality or racism. It's not that those aren't very important discussions, or that kids shouldn't be taught and shown these things. Of course they will and we all figured out a bunch of this stuff over time, it's more that that's not why I watch a movie with my family, to then get into certain narratives foisted upon our family on very personal subjects by some company rather than on our own time, within our own family.

It just isn't really a topic that's necessary in a Disney movie that's made to target 5 year olds, and it creates unnecessary distraction for the actual story. Like what are they trying to achieve here, are they trying to tell a story and entertain you? Or are they trying to lead you down a path of enlightenment? Those are two critically different things. And then to have the pleasure of paying for that is also annoying.

lets stick with Strange World for the example. There was nothing forced or shoved in anyone's face about sexuality. You brought your own baggage to the movie and that's what might have cause your issues watching it.

I think it's great that we get to see different types of people have totally normal every day relationships, instead of demonizing or hiding away people that actually are no different than you or me. The execution of the character was fine.

We watched it with my kid and you know what? She didn't ask a thing. She just accepted it as normal that someone would have a cute crush on another person. it wasn't straight or gay it was just the characters on the screen. Ethan was a good character and she liked him, thought he was cool and was happy when later in the show he got to share the new world with his bf.

Then again we've addressed things throughout her childhood and explained them, and if she still has questions, pause what we're doing and discuss them again. queer people are not some boogeyman to hide her from.

We've gone to drag story time also, and know what she learned there? That adults reading books to kids is cool as she loves books. She also learned that guys can also dress fabulous.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Yamer

If it didn't land because it was simply a mediocre movie (I was looking at my phone a lot), the only reason for it to "bomb" in such away is because some doofus complained to a school board and the culture war addicts needed their fix.

I actually thought the movie was okay and to be honest I appreciated Disney trying new ideas / trying to be creative. Many people criticize Disney for always going back to the well on the same old previous stories, so I like when they try new things.

Did the bolded actually happen? That is also hilarious people would care enough to go to those lengths about a kid movie.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Normalization of that stuff seems like a good thing to do. Maybe it's just in Disney's execution. Something feels off with the way they're approaching it.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This is a reasonable take. The way representation is shown is totally up for debate, but taking umbrage with the representation itself ain't it.

Agreed on both.

On one hand it is understandable that Disney is dipping their toes in the water on this topic. It's new ground and we have a lot of bigots with far too much confidence out there.

On the other hand it's frustrating they don't just jump all the way in. Yes, the character is actually one of the heroes of the film, but in an ensemble of redeemed heroes it seems like weak representation.

It's still a step in the right direction IMO.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I actually thought the movie was okay and to be honest I appreciated Disney trying new ideas / trying to be creative. Many people criticize Disney for always going back to the well on the same old previous stories, so I like when they try new things.

Did the bolded actually happen? That is also hilarious people would care enough to go to those lengths about a kid movie.

It wasn't shooting up already purchased Bud Light, but it sure did happen.

A Florida teacher under investigation because she showed her class the Disney animated movie Strange World which features a gay character has defended herself on social media, insisting the film related to the curriculum and warning that state investigators were traumatizing her 10- and 11-year-old students.

Jenna Barbee, a teacher at Winding Waters school in Hernando county, Florida, released a six-minute TikTok video in which she gave her side of the story. She said she had been reported to the local school board by one of her students’ mother, who sits on the board and was on a “rampage to get rid of every form of representation out of our schools”, Barbee alleged.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-strange-world

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Agreed on both.

On one hand it is understandable that Disney is dipping their toes in the water on this topic. It's new ground and we have a lot of bigots with far too much confidence out there.

On the other hand it's frustrating they don't just jump all the way in. Yes, the character is actually one of the heros of the film, but in an ensemble of redeemed heroes it seems like weak representation.

It's still a step in the right direction IMO.

and I hope they keep doing it.

I don't like the argument that kids movies are not the place to show those sorts of things especially when "it makes them ask questions"

I think it's the perfect place.

[Mr.Coffee]

my point wasn't that they are asking questions in the first place, more the timing thereof that inevitably blows up. But you're right, movies likely are a decent time and context to have them that could be true too when I think about it.