2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[bax]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

I'm saying Kylington has the higher offensive ceiling and can potentially fill the high end offensive dman role we have been lacking for years.

Like a powerplay specialist type role? I can see that as well. I’m not sure if he’ll ever be as good as an overall defensman as Hanifin is though.

Regardless the Flames got it done by committee last year. They had the 7th most points from defenseman last season and have now added Weegar to the mix.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If Hanifin is so good and if D is so much more valuable than RW, why aren't we getting anything for him?

And of course, if we aren't, you don't move him.

People are acting like the concept of trading Hanifin revolves around moving him for the sake of moving him. It doesn't. Hanifin is a good player, has a ton of value, and moving him would still leave us improved on the back end over last season.

If you can't get value for him, you don't move him. It doesn't have to be hard. But out of every D we have, you have the biggest opportunity to get a high value player with Hanifin. And we could do that without giving up our first or second best defenseman. That's why it is appealing. Doesn't mean you do it for just anything. I find a lot of the "Oh but you'd only get Anderson" comments totally pointless. If it's true, then you don't trade him. It's not like anyone is bound to trade a player for anything available just because someone said it was worth exploring on the internet.

I don't think you get the same value out of Kylington. Maybe a young third line type that can score 15. But the same goes for him. If you can get good value out of him that improves the team, you do it.

The only thing that has gotten worse this offseason is our offensive production potential. Makes sense to address that by reducing the amount we already improved a near-league-best team defense. Without Hanifin we're still defensively better than last year. With Hanifin we're a LOT better... and I don't think we needed that big of an improvement.

Gaudreau - Tkachuk - Gudbranson: 236 points last year, 460 in 589 games over 3 years

Huberdeau - Kadri - Weegar: 246 points last year, 507 in 561 games over 3 years

I don't think the bolded statement is accurate

I also think we will see improved offense from whoever moves up in the lineup, likely being Toffoli and Dube, or the addition of Milano

Offense is not going to be a problem, and weakening the bolstered D to try and improve it makes no sense (unless you can hit a homerun)

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Gaudreau - Tkachuk - Gudbranson: 236 points last year, 460 in 589 games over 3 years

Huberdeau - Kadri - Weegar: 246 points last year, 507 in 561 games over 3 years

I don't think the bolded statement is accurate

I also think we will see improved offense from whoever moves up in the lineup, likely being Toffoli and Dube, or the addition of Milano

Offense is not going to be a problem, and weakening the bolstered D to try and improve it makes no sense (unless you can hit a homerun)

Goals dropped, and that’s including Gudbranson’s incredible 11 goals over 3 years. You need guys who put the puck in the net.

Offence largely ran through the top line for most of the year. The top line went from three 40 goal scorers to one. Who is putting the puck in the net if one of Lindholm or Mangiapane go down?

I don’t actually think offence is going to be a big problem, but people forget that this team also ran up the score in a lot of meaningless games last year. You can think we see improved offence from a bunch of guys who didn’t cut it just as I can say we see improved defence from everyone not named Tanev. For every “what if Weegar goes down??” there’s a “what if Huberdeau goes down??”

We are not a particularly deep team when it comes to scoring goals. Haven’t had to be. Probably won’t have to be. But let’s not pretend we weren’t wishing for another trigger man last year, too.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Goals dropped, and that’s including Gudbranson’s incredible 11 goals over 3 years. You need guys who put the puck in the net.

Offence largely ran through the top line for most of the year. The top line went from three 40 goal scorers to one. Who is putting the puck in the net if one of Lindholm or Mangiapane go down?

I don’t actually think offence is going to be a big problem, but people forget that this team also ran up the score in a lot of meaningless games last year. You can think we see improved offence from a bunch of guys who didn’t cut it just as I can say we see improved defence from everyone not named Tanev. For every “what if Weegar goes down??” there’s a “what if Huberdeau goes down??”

We are not a particularly deep team when it comes to scoring goals. Haven’t had to be. Probably won’t have to be. But let’s not pretend we weren’t wishing for another trigger man last year, too.

The Flames won the Cup with only 2 28-goal scorers. Colorado just won with 0 40-goal scorers.

Lots of different ways to build a successful team.

[Sandman]

With how many blowouts we had last year, we could drop a few dozen goals and not even feel it in the win column.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The top line wasn't going to have 3 - 40 goal scorers again anyways.

I think it's safe to say Lindholm will get 30 goals, Mangiapane should hit 30 again and you have a outside shot of Huberdeau and Kadri in 30 goal mix as well if not they surely be in the 20s. Add in Toffoli and Dube both those guys should hit the 20s. If we get some improvement out of guys that can go higher.

A 15-20 goal drop off still has us in the 270 range which should have is in the top 6.

[FanIn80]

In all honesty, I don't think anything else matters if we can't figure out a way to play EDM without falling for their boneheaded garbage and then spending the night in the penalty box.

We witnessed the second best regular season of this franchise's history literally fall apart because for 5 games we couldn't stay out of the box, and wound up letting one player beat us.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

In all honesty, I don't think anything else matters if we can't figure out a way to play EDM without falling for their boneheaded garbage and then spending the night in the penalty box.

We witnessed the second best regular season of this franchise's history literally fall apart because for 5 games we couldn't stay out of the box, and wound up letting one player beat us.

Do you still actually believe this?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Do you still actually believe this?

Are there any non-oiler fans who don't?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by butterfly

The Flames won the Cup with only 2 28-goal scorers. Colorado just won with 0 40-goal scorers.

Lots of different ways to build a successful team.

Colorado had 3 guys on pace for it. And all three of those guys are no strangers to hitting 40 or scoring at a 40 goal pace in shortened seasons. No use comparing a team 30 years ago, different game.

I totally agree that you can build a successful team a lot of different ways. The only thing I’m saying is that we’re weak in one area we were already a little weak in and stronger in an area we were already strong in. Shifting that a little bit is an option. Not saying it has to happen to make the Flames a cup contender, but it’s just an option that makes sense. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The top line wasn't going to have 3 - 40 goal scorers again anyways.

I think it's safe to say Lindholm will get 30 goals, Mangiapane should hit 30 again and you have a outside shot of Huberdeau and Kadri in 30 goal mix as well if not they surely be in the 20s. Add in Toffoli and Dube both those guys should hit the 20s. If we get some improvement out of guys that can go higher.

A 15-20 goal drop off still has us in the 270 range which should have is in the top 6.

“If”

And “if” Weegar, Tanev, and Andersson stay healthy we don’t need Hanifin to have a strong defensive core. “If” is pretty meaningless. I also think the “top line wasn’t scoring 40 each this year” claim kind of nonsense. Just a lot of “the guys who left would’ve gotten worse and the guys who stayed/arrived will get better!” Always the way it works, isn’t it?

Just based on the numbers you threw out there, that’s an easy 35-45 goal drop off that “should” happen and the only way it won’t is if Dube and Toffoli collectively score a couple more goals each? Nah.

It might work out, it might not. No big deal either way as we can just agree to disagree. Goal scoring outside the top line was a question mark last year and now there’s a question mark on the top line added into it. Not a huge issue, but it’d be logical to address it. It’d also be logical to have extra insurance on D. Just feels funny to have RW be an issue for so long and suddenly when we have the pieces to address it, it’s too scary to try.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Colorado had 3 guys on pace for it. And all three of those guys are no strangers to hitting 40 or scoring at a 40 goal pace in shortened seasons. No use comparing a team 30 years ago, different game.

I totally agree that you can build a successful team a lot of different ways. The only thing I’m saying is that we’re weak in one area we were already a little weak in and stronger in an area we were already strong in. Shifting that a little bit is an option. Not saying it has to happen to make the Flames a cup contender, but it’s just an option that makes sense. Simple as that.



“If”

And “if” Weegar, Tanev, and Andersson stay healthy we don’t need Hanifin to have a strong defensive core. “If” is pretty meaningless. I also think the “top line wasn’t scoring 40 each this year” claim kind of nonsense. Just a lot of “the guys who left would’ve gotten worse and the guys who stayed/arrived will get better!” Always the way it works, isn’t it?

Just based on the numbers you threw out there, that’s an easy 35-45 goal drop off that “should” happen and the only way it won’t is if Dube and Toffoli collectively score a couple more goals each? Nah.

It might work out, it might not. No big deal either way as we can just agree to disagree. Goal scoring outside the top line was a question mark last year and now there’s a question mark on the top line added into it. Not a huge issue, but it’d be logical to address it. It’d also be logical to have extra insurance on D. Just feels funny to have RW be an issue for so long and suddenly when we have the pieces to address it, it’s too scary to try.

I never said these guys would have career years. 30 goals for Lindholm and Mangiapane is realistic. Huberdeau and Kadri have been consistent 20 goal guys as has Toffoli.

It would have been "if" with the same team returning. Johnny and Tkachuk have been inconsistent year to year so who knows how they perform.

I'd argue C has been the biggest weakness on this team and we finally have addressed that, and by having that they can elevate the games of lesser wingers.

For the longest time this team has been winger heavy and it doesn't work.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Do you still actually believe this?

Do you think it's changed since May?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

For the longest time this team has been winger heavy and it doesn't work.

Good thing literally nobody is suggesting being winger heavy.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Good thing literally nobody is suggesting being winger heavy.

No, no one is.

But we moved out some winger strength to improve at C and D. And I don't think it makes a lot of sense to now turn around and trade D strength to improve the wing.

Acquiring someone lesser, who can be a decent player, makes more sense IMO.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Do you still actually believe this?

Even Sutter said when asked why they lost, that we got beat by the best player in the world. That was his assessment.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I think we will be just fine with our roster as is, maybe with a Milano/Stone signing added.

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Toffoli
Mangiapane - Kadri - Dube
Ruzicka - Backlund - Coleman
Lucic - Rooney - Lewis
Ritchie, (Milano)

Weegar - Tanev
Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Zadorov
Valimaki, (Stone)

Markstrom
Vladar

Is a fine roster for 60% of the season, until we can go shopping for a top 6 LW/RW using Valimaki or Dube+. Or just picks/prospects. We have options for either side because luckily Mangiapane can play either wing.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Do you think it's changed since May?

No. The flames still didn’t lose because of penalties and one player.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, no one is.

But we moved out some winger strength to improve at C and D. And I don't think it makes a lot of sense to now turn around and trade D strength to improve the wing.

Acquiring someone lesser, who can be a decent player, makes more sense IMO.

We lost a winger to free agency and got the best deal we could for the other that gave us a limited list of places he would go. In return we got a winger to replace one of them and a defenceman. “If” the best package included two wingers, we would’ve taken the two wingers. Would you have been opposed to trading a winger for a defenceman?

We then traded a C and a 1st so we could sign a better C.

Let’s not pretend we intentionally moved out our two best wingers to improve the C and D positions. Come on now.

“Acquiring someone lesser” … cool, who? What are we giving up? Who are they improving upon?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Weitz

No. The flames still didn’t lose because of penalties and one player.

We lost because our goalie crumbled and McDavis and Draisaitl went on record heaters.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Let’s not pretend we intentionally moved out our two best wingers to improve the C and D positions. Come on now.

No, they lost their best winger and were forced to trade their second-best. But signing Kadri was a straightforward effort to improve at C, and IIRC, Treliving was on record before the Tkachuk trade as saying he wanted to upgrade the D.

The Flames' GM did a brilliant job of getting exactly what he wanted and what he thought his team needed. He didn't just let random parts fall into his lap.