2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Your list includes Hanifin. He’s gone in that scenario. So Kylington is already in your top 4. Your bottom pair is Stone/Zadorov. Another injury and one of them is top 4. Stone Mackey is a terrible bottom pair.

All to get a Josh Anderson level player.

Stone - Mackey isn't a terrible bottom pair at all and that's with an injury. I actually love having Stone's howitzer in the line up.

If we're going to point to scenarios where we lose a defensman to injury on a solid defensive group than it must follow that we also do the same for an injury or two on forward?

Lose Huberdeau/Kadri/Lindholm to injury and you could make the same "omg, look what our top 6 looks like minus a star player" scenario.

[bax]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Stone - Mackey isn't a terrible bottom pair at all and that's with an injury. I actually love having Stone's howitzer in the line up.

If we're going to point to scenarios where we lose a defensman to injury on a solid defensive group than it must follow that we also do the same for an injury or two on forward?

Lose Huberdeau/Kadri/Lindholm to injury and you could make the same "omg, look what our top 6 looks like minus a star player" scenario.

Stone and Mackey? How is that not an objectively terrible bottom pair?

Stone has played a grand total of 36 games over the past 3 seasons and Mackey has total of 9 NHL games to his name.

These guys are tweeners because they can come play a game here or there in a pinch. If they are consistently playing they will be exposed.

[bax]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Weegar-Andersson
Kylington-Tanev
Zadorov-Meloche
Valimaki-Stone
Mackey

What is so bad with this group?

An injury and Zadorov moves up.

What’s bad with this group is what happened in the Oilers series. One of Tanev, Weegar, or Andersson goes down and everybody’s job is exponentially tougher.

And what about Meloche? He doesn’t even have a full season of NHL hockey to his name. There’s a good chance he’s not even an every day player.

Kylington was great last year, but let’s not pretend like he wasn’t propped up by Tanev. He is better suited for a more sheltered role.

Treliving specifically spoke about how improving the defense was a key area to work on this off season. He’s not going to trade any of the top 6. This team is built from the net out.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by bax

Stone and Mackey? How is that not an objectively terrible bottom pair?

Stone has played a grand total of 36 games over the past 3 seasons and Mackey has total of 9 NHL games to his name.

These guys are tweeners because they can come play a game here or there in a pinch. If they are consistently playing they will be exposed.

I see a major difference between a tweener and a 7th defensemen. Stone is absolutely capable of playing a full season as a bottom pairing defensemen. He just doesn't because we're a team that emphasizes defence so he only plays when injuries occur.

[Sandman]

I would have no problem at all with Stone being one of our bottom pair defensemen.

[dissentowner]

Hanifin is a young stud D man, the return I would expect to see on him makes it highly unlikely he moves. Here is some thoughts.

Anaheim: Troy Terry. Broke out in a huge way. Makes 1.45 but will be a RFA at the end of year. I don't see why the Ducks make that deal.

Boston: Pasta. Unless he tells the Bruins he is walking and you have an extension in place there is zero chance. More salary would have to go out next offseason as well as he will cost a pretty penny to sign. I don't see why he would not just test FA and Hanifin is too good to deal for a rental, even if it is Pasta. It also makes no sense for Boston.

Chicago: Pat Kane. He wouldn't waive to come here and he would be a rental that would need 50% retention. That being said if Hanifin for Kane at 50% retained was on the table I would do it just because I think adding P Kane would instantly vault this club to SC favourites. It isn't happening though.

Dallas: Jason Robertson. You would have to add if there was a possibility to acquire him but I don't think he is going anywhere.

Philly: Konecny. The direction the Flyers went on D in FA leaves me doubtful they would be looking for any top 4 D man and I like Konecny but they would have to sweeten the pot for me to trade Hanifin for him.

Pittsburgh: Guentzel. The Penguins D is pooh but they are heading for rebuild city very soon. I don't see it.

Toronto: Nylander. Toronto doesn't need Hanifin nearly as much as they need Nylander.

[Sandman]

If he wasn't out for the next few months after knee surgery, I was going to suggest RW Tom Wilson.

-Washington doesn't have much on D after Carlson. Orlov is ok, Fehervary is pretty young. They could use a guy like Hanifin.

-Wilson is a RW, a big organizational need.

-Salaries of both players are close, and both are UFA in 2 years.

-Wilson is an impact player- Huge, tough, with some offense, and can change the momentum of a game in many ways. Intimidating force, would be a weapon against Edmonton. Sutter would love him.

Just for fun. Washington wouldn't trade him anyway, he's too valuable to them, and protects Ovi.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Weegar-Andersson
Kylington-Tanev
Zadorov-Meloche
Valimaki-Stone
Mackey

What is so bad with this group?

An injury and Zadorov moves up.

You answered your own question.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Your list includes Hanifin. He’s gone in that scenario. So Kylington is already in your top 4. Your bottom pair is Stone/Zadorov. Another injury and one of them is top 4. Stone Mackey is a terrible bottom pair.

All to get a Josh Anderson level player.

I know he is.

If Stone is your #6 he is two injuries away from top 4.

People are acting like last year was a complete disaster defensively. I would gladly take a similar situation to last year with a much better top 2 and have some scoring help along with it.

It’s kind of fascinating to me. “I would rather not have a top line RW than have to play Mackey/Valimaki on the bottom pairing during an injury.” That’s an insane position to take.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I know he is.

If Stone is your #6 he is two injuries away from top 4.

People are acting like last year was a complete disaster defensively. I would gladly take a similar situation to last year with a much better top 2 and have some scoring help along with it.

It’s kind of fascinating to me. “I would rather not have a top line RW than have to play Mackey/Valimaki on the bottom pairing during an injury.” That’s an insane position to take.

In the end, the Oilers series, it kind of was.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by bax

Stone and Mackey? How is that not an objectively terrible bottom pair?

Stone has played a grand total of 36 games over the past 3 seasons and Mackey has total of 9 NHL games to his name.

These guys are tweeners because they can come play a game here or there in a pinch. If they are consistently playing they will be exposed.

Mountain out of a molehill. Mackey has a lot of room to grow, if he gets an honest crack to play 30-40 games this year you're going to get a solid 5-6 moving forward. Stone is fine in that role as well if his minutes are capped to bottom pairing level as well.

It's not like Zadorov doesn't go stretches where he looks like hot garbage either and this is the veteran on a huge deal for a bottom pairing defender. It's not ideal, but I get the logic if there's a chance to add a really good winger to this group, you take it with guys like Mackey, Valimaki, Meloche, Stone in the organization.

I don't really want to give up on any of the current D, but it really depends what's out there. If you make a move and the forward group is improved even more, great. If it doesn't work out, you can always make a move to bring in a bottom pairing defender mid season if it is that big of an issue or injuries have popped up.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Mountain out of a molehill. Mackey has a lot of room to grow, if he gets an honest crack to play 30-40 games this year you're going to get a solid 5-6 moving forward. Stone is fine in that role as well if his minutes are capped to bottom pairing level as well.

It's not like Zadorov doesn't go stretches where he looks like hot garbage either and this is the veteran on a huge deal for a bottom pairing defender. It's not ideal, but I get the logic if there's a chance to add a really good winger to this group, you take it with guys like Mackey, Valimaki, Meloche, Stone in the organization.

I don't really want to give up on any of the current D, but it really depends what's out there. If you make a move and the forward group is improved even more, great. If it doesn't work out, you can always make a move to bring in a bottom pairing defender mid season if it is that big of an issue or injuries have popped up.

Mackey has a lot of room to grow? He’s actually older than Hanifin, Andersson, and Kylington.

Counting on him to contribute in a meaningful way during a season where you’re trying to go all in is a bad idea. There’s a high probability he will never be a full time NHL player.

Nothing wrong with that, but he’s serviceable depth in case of injury. Nothing more.

Michael Stone is a flat footed 32 year old defenseman who hasn’t been a full time NHL player in 4 years! His usage needs to be extremely limited for him to be successful. You start pencilling him in to play over 20 games and you will be left disappointed. I like him. I like him in his current role and I know it’s a good story, but need to be realistic about what he is.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Toonage

In the end, the Oilers series, it kind of was.

A series where we learned how good and important Tanev was, not how good and important Hanifin was. We already added another bonafide top pairing guy to help relieve some of the load from Tanev.

Our defence wasn’t a disaster because we lost our third/fourth best defenceman.

[Chingas]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Weegar-Andersson
Kylington-Tanev
Zadorov-Meloche
Valimaki-Stone
Mackey

What is so bad with this group?

An injury and Zadorov moves up.

To me this looks like it's missing a top tier d-man. Thankfully we have Hanifin to fill that hole. The borderline obsession of posters that want to include him for marginal upgrades on forward are head scratching to me. I don't want him moved at all. I just don't feel like we have excessive riches on the back end. Many bodies does not equal excess talent imo.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I know he is.

If Stone is your #6 he is two injuries away from top 4.

People are acting like last year was a complete disaster defensively. I would gladly take a similar situation to last year with a much better top 2 and have some scoring help along with it.

It’s kind of fascinating to me. “I would rather not have a top line RW than have to play Mackey/Valimaki on the bottom pairing during an injury.” That’s an insane position to take.

I never said last year was a disaster defensively. Having Mackey, Stone or even both in your lineup for the entire season will be a disaster not just defensively but offensively as well.

They have prioritized having guys who can skate on the backend and transition the puck, what good is having a top line RW if our defensive can't get the puck up to them. We start having the conversation mid season hoping Brad can get a top 4 defenseman.

Guys like Dube, Mangiapane and Toffoli are just going to have to give a bit more, which seems to be the motto of the team this offseason everyone can improve by 10%.

[bax]

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. So just to clarify the timeline of events is:

1. Flames lose a top 4 D in the playoffs resulting in every defenseman having to shoulder some more responsibility and the result isn’t great.

2. Treliving publicly states (in addition to all the Gaudreau and Tkachuk drama) that improving the defense is a top priority this off season.

3. Treliving effectively replaces a bottom pairing defenseman (Gudbranson) with a top pairing defenseman (Weegar) improving not only the top end of our defense, but also the bottom end (by pushing players down the rotation and adding depth in Meloche and Gilbert).

4. Now some fans are advocating for trading away a top 4 cog on defense (essentially erasing the improvement Treliving made to the D) in order for help at forward? Even though he replaced Tkachuk and Gaudreau with Huberdeau and Kadri?

Not only do I disagree with that direction, I just don’t think it’s realistic at all based on what Treliving has said.

I’m baffled that some posters would be okay with either Michael Stone or Connor Mackey pencilled in to play a full season.

In a year when the team has Stanley Cup aspirations Treliving and Sutter aren’t going to rely on a 32 year old slow defenseman who hasn’t been a regular player in 4 seasons or a 26 year old NHL rookie to play a permanent role, it just won’t happen.

If anything Kylington needs to be bumped down the rotation and thrive in a more sheltered role. That way the defense is unquestionably better and better suited to adapt in case of injury.

With that being said I also acknowledge that another top 6 winger would be nice to have, but I haven’t seen one realistic name that would be A) actually available and B) worth giving up any of our defenseman.

I think if Milano impresses at camp the Flames will be happy to give him a shot in the top 6 or potentially make an add near the deadline when they don’t need to trade a core piece to do it.

[Monahammer]

I wonder if there's a way to add to Dube + Valimaki and get Travis Konecny?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I know he is.

If Stone is your #6 he is two injuries away from top 4.

People are acting like last year was a complete disaster defensively. I would gladly take a similar situation to last year with a much better top 2 and have some scoring help along with it.

It’s kind of fascinating to me. “I would rather not have a top line RW than have to play Mackey/Valimaki on the bottom pairing during an injury.” That’s an insane position to take.

Last year had Zadorov and Gudbranson on the bottom which is fine. One injury messed it up. Kylington is not a real top 4 defence - he just had Tanev to lean on.

I’m not as big on Stone as some. The big shot is highly overrated and he just isn’t very good otherwise. And Mackey is completely untried.

And you aren’t getting an elite RW - that’s the point. You aren’t getting Kucherov for Hanifin. You are getting Anderson and losing the trade. The pickings of available guys are so slim.

I’d try to move Kylington plus for a 2RW as opposed to Hanifin.

[Flaming Horse]

The trick is also to get someone who can contribute now but is cost controlled now and not going to cost you much in the next couple of years because next year is going to be very tight against the cap. The team could not afford a guy like Nylander. It would have to be someone on a good contract for a couple of years at least and is a legit top six forward. Once Weegar signs both his and Hubys contract kicks in next year things will be tight.Do the math.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

The trick is also to get someone who can contribute now but is cost controlled now and not going to cost you much in the next couple of years because next year is going to be very tight against the cap. The team could not afford a guy like Nylander. It would have to be someone on a good contract for a couple of years at least and is a legit top six forward. Once Weegar signs both his and Hubys contract kicks in next year things will be tight.Do the math.

Right. That's why I figure it's a second line guy. It's a Garland/Anderson/Eberle type.