American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[PsYcNeT]

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37

Social and History undergrad numbers have been falling for the last 5 years. The majority of this relief will go to Business grads, the spokes in the wheel of Capitalism.

[Lanny_McDonald]

That's unfortunate. At a time when we need to learn and understand our history, we're seeing those numbers drop. We'll only get weaker as a nation if we don't have educated people to correct the disinformation so prevalent and accepted in our society.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37

Social and History undergrad numbers have been falling for the last 5 years. The majority of this relief will go to Business grads, the spokes in the wheel of Capitalism.

19% is not a majority.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

What's the difference? Why do you get to determine the value of a degree and what it can offer to the world and whether it should be available for funding? I've never understood this mentality. If someone wants to pursue a given field of study to better themselves and learn skills that are transferable to any situation, why should we be stopping them? I'm not a fan of the number of students enrolled in sports related programs, but they are at least learning and picking up skills that should translate to other professions. Learning to write, think critically, problem solve, and research are very important skills that transcend all fields of study.

Also curious, what's your grind against MBAs? I get the stereotype, but you still need the expertise and understanding taught in these programs to drive multiple industries in the right direction. Having management expertise is how you improve businesses and make them run more efficiently. This extends to government as well. Having that business acumen can help government better interface with private industry and then also apply those learnings to making government run more efficiently. The number of disciplines that have spun up in MBA programs make them very useful in developing high performing managers, especially in executive MBA programs.

I should have clarified that we should pay tuition or at least generously help pay for degrees that fill jobs where we have severe job shortages.

I know here in Manitoba as an example you can get your construction electrical tuition paid for by the government if you get hired as an apprentice. This has helped a lot of companies fill spots.

I have nothing against MBAs, but we have shortages that need to be addressed.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

19% is not a majority.

Majority within the noted breakout.

[Azure]

I'm not sure I see that as a bad thing. The US creates a lot of startups that generate value, create jobs, etc. Getting a business degree to do that is not a 'bad' thing, but I'm not sure it should be subsidized.

I'd rather we subsidize more critical stuff.

Getting a MBA and making $100k your first year working at JP Morgan does not equal needing public help to pay for your loans.

But going to medical school and filling a critical role as a heart surgeon does equal that public need.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Medical schools are already full and highly competitive. I'm not sure there's a capacity for more applicants to those positions.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

How are these things remotely comparable?

You're right. People who get student loans actually need the money. A YouTube/podcasting company that was unaffected by the pandemic (they produced over 120 episodes in 2020) is basically just lining up at the trough for free government money.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Majority within the noted breakout.

It's not even close to a majority of the degrees broken out in the graph, and you said the majority of the relief will go to business grads, when the article you posted puts that number at 19%. Also it doesn't show social sciences and history declining over the last 5 years, the graph is pretty steady over the last 5 years, with a small downward trend in the 5 years before that.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by opendoor

You're right. People who get student loans actually need the money. A YouTube/podcasting company that was unaffected by the pandemic (they produced over 120 episodes in 2020) is basically just lining up at the trough for free government money.

Socialism for me, but not for thee, and all that ####.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

It's not even close to a majority of the degrees broken out in the graph, and you said the majority of the relief will go to business grads, when the article you posted puts that number at 19%. Also it doesn't show social sciences and history declining over the last 5 years, the graph is pretty steady over the last 5 years, with a small downward trend in the 5 years before that.

Yep. Phoneposting is bad.

"Majority" is the word of contention here, "largest chunk going to Business grads" would have been a better descriptor.

On the other note however, you're just nitpicking as the fall happens between 2013-2018 which happened in both the preceding 5 year period and the "current" 5 year interval.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1562826629625237505

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Yep. Phoneposting is bad.

"Majority" is the word of contention here, "largest chunk going to Business grads" would have been a better descriptor.

On the other note however, you're just nitpicking as the fall happens between 2013-2018 which happened in both the preceding 5 year period and the "current" 5 year interval.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1562826629625237505

Fair enough. It just looked more like a small downward blip and not a continuing downward trend. I'll move on though

[JohnnyB]

Going to business school is expensive, and a bschool program is far from just about what you learn. It's a lot about access and relationships that open doors which would otherwise not open. Lots of those doors that open into high-paying corporate, consulting, or financial sector careers also require lengthy unpaid internships to get in.

Leaving bschool grads out of the loan forgiveness or financial aid benefits would just make it that much harder for people from backgrounds of lower means to break into those halls of power.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

That exists. It's called Public Service Loan Forgiveness and is a program designed to get people into jobs like police, fire, teachers, civil service, and non-profits which provide for the public good. In this program you make 120 payments (10 years) in an approved program and after that period you can have your loans forgiven. Recognize that most of PSLF requires you be enrolled in an income based repayment play, which calculated your payment at 10% of your discretionary spending, which can be a big payment. Most people will exceed the principle amount over that decade, yet have not even scratched the actual principle of the loan. It is a huge benefit and why people will continue to work in public service, for less money, because they have that light at the end of the tunnel. Too bad that under DeVos less than 2% of people who submitted for forgiveness were approved. The government has to live up to their end of the bargain and unfortunately they have not.

I'm down visiting a friend in the US right now who has just completed her requirements to qualify under this program (10 years) and I know she basically wept and thought it was some sort of hoax that there was an actually a zero next to her balance owed..the amount she owed makes me nervous to even think about- they are still awaiting her husband's notification as he was in the same scenario

[Ozy_Flame]

Business school was great for learning how to organize, manage your time, and be a team player. It also opens doors for the variety of people you meet, and creates great networks for later in life. In a pro-business city like Calgary, it was absolutely the right thing to do.

Some of them go on to become job creators and career enablers for others as well.

That is worth the cost of admission alone, and business students should get the same loan forgiveness as any other student.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by photon

Lol I was thinking that exact thing this morning.

Trump doesn't read documents, he looks at pictures or pages with pictures and 5 words.

Who told Trump what to keep and why?

An WH insider’s book on DJT I read said that briefing reports had to be very short. He’d lose interest before the end of the first page.

Also, he would sometimes give an order for something to be done and staff would hide the meme or letter ordering an action on his desk. He’d never find it and days later they’d retrieve and destroy it; he would forget.

What a buffoon.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by looooob

I'm down visiting a friend in the US right now who has just completed her requirements to qualify under this program (10 years) and I know she basically wept and thought it was some sort of hoax that there was an actually a zero next to her balance owed..the amount she owed makes me nervous to even think about- they are still awaiting her husband's notification as he was in the same scenario

That's awesome to hear looooob. I can imagine the balances as I've seen many from cohorts who have been in the same program. Good to see this worked for them and I hope they celebrated with family and friends who were all part of their support team going through the last decade!

It's funny, but the vast majority of people out there don't understand the value of the PSLF program or the positive effect it has had on services to the public. You now have people that should be running private companies sticking it out in government or non-profits and making those interests that much better, which in turn makes the life of those constituents much better. I was never a George Bush fan, but PSLF was a freakin' brilliant concept and it has really paid off for the public. It is too bad that these success stories are promoted and the value proposition shown to the public. To get the best people you have to have benefits that can attract the best people. PSLF is a fantastic recruitment and retention tool that really levels the playing field in many regards. Government/non-profit has traditionally been a training ground to raid for skilled talent that you can get at a discount. PSLF has changed that. A very tough benefit to walk away from.

[PsYcNeT]

Quiet part loud.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1562820837140742144

Honestly, the gigabrain GOP meltdowns the last two days have been absolutely incredible, aside from the similar meltdowns from literal out of touch failsons writing thinkpieces for Newsweek and the like

[Lanny_McDonald]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1562527919527800832

[DownInFlames]