Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[handgroen]

nm

[Commandant]

Originally Posted by Robbob

That is the other reason I am leaning towards Monahan. He was all they had so every shift he played against the best. With his circumstances, I don't think we have the complete picture of what he can be.

Who is a better player....

The best 19 year old OHLers....
or
Third line 25 year old KHLers.

Not who will be the best in the NHL? Who is the best right now, going head to head with Nichuskin and Monahan.

Seeing as how undrafted 20 year old overage player dominate in the CHL, and put up a ton of points and can be in the race for scoring titles every year and then do nothing at the AHL and NHL levels, I'm gonna go with the more developped, more mature, 25 year olds.

Again, not potential... just best right now.

There is a reason why the CIS teams compete (and usually beat) our World Junior Team every December in the exhibition tuneups at tryout camp.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Walter Reed

Not sure what you are referring to as the panel had the Flames drafting centre Lindholm and the Oilers drafting defenseman Nurse.

I was referring to he 5 individual mock drafts from the panel members: 2 Nichushkins and a Nurse for Calgary

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I just want the best player available at the time we get to make our selection. Nichushkin is being talked about like he would be a first overall pick in most draft years. Monahan/Lindholm/Nurse are not that caliber of prospect.

It would be a shame to lose out on that level of prospect due to unfounded fears, optics, or because we don't want to deal with a couple of silly threads on Calgary Puck.

Fortunately I don't think the CP reaction is high on the Flames draft criteria.

Please back this up. There is as much hyperbole from the Nichushkin supporters as there is fear-mongering from the other camp.

Like The Yen Man said, why take on the risk when there are other great players to draft?

And I want to build a good team, not simply draft players.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I hope like heck that Nichushkin is gone before #6. Maybe he's a great talent, but he scares the bejesus out of me. This draft could potentially set up the Flames in a good way for the next 10-15 years, I'd rather them play it a bit more 'safe'. Barkov or Monahan and I'm a happy camper.

Me too.

Nichushkin going top 5 ensures us one of Barkov or Monahan (or Lindholm if you prefer)

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Please back this up. There is as much hyperbole from the Nichushkin supporters as there is fear-mongering from the other camp.

Like The Yen Man said, why take on the risk when there are other great players to draft?

And I want to build a good team, not simply draft players.

Even with the KHL factor degrading his ranking, Nichushkin is still ranked 4-5 on a lot of lists.

Scouts say the top 3 picks in this draft would all have gone 1st overall in last year's draft, ahead of Yakupov.

So Nichushkin is a guy who, without the Russian factor, would probably go #1 overall in a more typical draft year.

[Alberta_Beef]

I love how people argue against the "Russian Factor", yet even professional scouts have admitted it exists. Don't you love when internet message board folk know more than the professionals in that field.

I can just imagine them second guessing their doctors and mechanics too.

[jeffman]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I love how people argue against the "Russian Factor", yet even professional scouts have admitted it exists. Don't you love when internet message board folk know more than the professionals in that field.

I can just imagine them second guessing their doctors and mechanics too.

Of course it exists, there's a reason why cherapanov, tarasenko and grigorenko were all picked 10 spots later than projected.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by jeffman

Of course it exists, there's a reason why cherapanov, tarasenko and grigorenko were all picked 10 spots later than projected.

I know it exists. That was my point.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I love how people argue against the "Russian Factor", yet even professional scouts have admitted it exists. Don't you love when internet message board folk know more than the professionals in that field.

I can just imagine them second guessing their doctors and mechanics too.

And I love how fans ignore all those scouts who rank Nichushkin at 4-5 even with the Russian factor, and say the Flames should avoid him at #6. I suppose they know more than the professionals.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And I love how fans ignore all those scouts who rank Nichushkin at 4-5 even with the Russian factor, and say the Flames should avoid him at #6. I suppose they know more than the professionals.

Scouts can rank these players in a bubble, we don't have the luxury of doing the same with our picks.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And I love how fans ignore all those scouts who rank Nichushkin at 4-5 even with the Russian factor, and say the Flames should avoid him at #6. I suppose they know more than the professionals.

How do you know the Scouts have ranked Nichuskin at 4th or 5th (that's Central Scouting).

I bet every NHL club's top 6 are different especially around 4th till 6th ranking.

There is no way a team like the Flames are going to expose their rankings (for example).

Central Scouting end of the rankings are always off by a sizeable margin to the actual draft...

There is a risk drafting a Russian player.... All NHL teams are aware of the risk and its a factor...

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And I love how fans ignore all those scouts who rank Nichushkin at 4-5 even with the Russian factor, and say the Flames should avoid him at #6. I suppose they know more than the professionals.

I never suggested every team would pass on him did I? All it takes is 1 team to believe his abilities trump the Russian factor and it could happen, but for some people to dispute the fact that the Russian factor exists is ridiculous.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Alright, I woke up and it just hit me that the draft is four days away. Can't wait to see who they draft. The future is four sleeps away.

My preference:

#6: Monahan, Lindholm, Nichushkin
#22: Hagg (probably won't be there), Morrissey, Zykov
#28: Hartman, McCoshen, Petan

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I never suggested every team would pass on him did I? All it takes is 1 team to believe his abilities trump the Russian factor and it could happen, but for some people to dispute the fact that the Russian factor exists is ridiculous.

Yep, higher end selection may pass on the Russian as other options can produce a decent player...

For example if he is there at pick 6, I bet the Flames pass.

My guess he will get picked at #8 by the Sabres.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Even with the KHL factor degrading his ranking, Nichushkin is still ranked 4-5 on a lot of lists.

Scouts say the top 3 picks in this draft would all have gone 1st overall in last year's draft, ahead of Yakupov.

So Nichushkin is a guy who, without the Russian factor, would probably go #1 overall in a more typical draft year.

Sorry, but the fact that the top 3 are really strong, and the fact that he is ranked 4th by some (but definitely not all), and the fact that he probably goes before Yakupov (I like him more than Yakupov), does not back that claim up.

Yakupov and the top 3 last year are, IMO, the weakest group in a long time.

Highly unlikely that he goes #1 in any other year in the last 10 years. Fleury was a bad pick in hindsight, but Nichushkin would not have been ranked higher than Staal and Horton IMO.

[Walter Reed]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I was referring to he 5 individual mock drafts from the panel members: 2 Nichushkins and a Nurse for Calgary

Ahhh, ... gotcha, I hadn't seen the individual panel selections.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I hope like heck that Nichushkin is gone before #6. Maybe he's a great talent, but he scares the bejesus out of me. This draft could potentially set up the Flames in a good way for the next 10-15 years, I'd rather them play it a bit more 'safe'. Barkov or Monahan and I'm a happy camper.

I don't understand why people are worried about the Flames taking Nichushkin? He's not remotely close to the type of player profile Weisbrod depicts the Flames are looking for. I just don't feel they would even taken him at 22. I'm not really even worried and feel if the pick isn't Lindholm/Monahan at 6 at worst they may take Nurse which isn't the end of the world although not exactly a great maneuver considering the lack of organizational depth at center.

[miraisoup]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/n...aft-2013-king/

Snet thinks the flames take fucale, can't see it happening and I really hope it doesn't.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by miraisoup

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/n...aft-2013-king/

Snet thinks the flames take fucale, can't see it happening and I really hope it doesn't.

Well, I didn't know who Patrick King was before this, but I now know not to trust his opinion.