Think about it....pilot has to get his gear on, get to his plane, do his pre-flight checks, take off, travel XXX miles, visually confirm its the correct target.....all in 20 minutes. All this without a transponder or communication from said aircraft.
The whole thing is just ludicrous.
Well, like arsenal said, they did scramble 2 fighters for flight 11 but were unsuccessful. The hijackers had that one for about 30 minutes by all accounts. Flight 93 and flight 77 were under hijacker control for even longer than that..........so I still consider it a major fail for NORAD.
Does anyone remember the Able Danger hearings? Did you guys not question the 9/11 story when that occured? I want to look into it more because at the time I did not pay close attention to it.
Again the false dichotomy... Believing the "official story" and thinking that the building were brought down with explosives (or whatever other theory of the minute it is, the goalposts always seem to be moving) aren't the only two possible options.
Makes sense there'd be a lot of CYA going on and people trying to make sure that the mistakes they made didn't get them in trouble.. even makes sense that some organizations were withholding information or even ignoring information for whatever reason.
Most people can think those things without having to resort to dumb demolition theories, understand that reality is complicated. But for a few it seems that the complexity of reality is too much so there's only two options.. "Official story", or crackpot ideas that change every few minutes.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
It took an airforce interceptor 1 hour and 22 minutes to locate Payne Stewarts plane and it was flying straight and had its transponder on.
IIRC, the first plane that intercepted Payne's plane was an F-16 already in the air and in the general vicinity (on a test run flown by a test pilot?). That cuts significant time off having to scramble a jet from the ground... and it still took them over an hour.
A significant weakness in the US' internal air defense doesn't equal a conspiracy and Ventura point out that weakness doesn't support a conspiracy.
IIRC, the first plane that intercepted Payne's plane was an F-16 already in the air and in the general vicinity (on a test run flown by a test pilot?). That cuts significant time off having to scramble a jet from the ground... and it still took them over an hour.
A significant weakness in the US' internal air defense doesn't equal a conspiracy and Ventura point out that weakness doesn't support a conspiracy.
Is it even a significant weakness? Jeez, every single person's experience with the military, except for Cap'n, is limited to what we have seen on TV and played on video games.
Looking for a few airliners in one of the busiest transportation corridors in the world must be akin to looking for a few needles in a whole stack of needles. Everything looks the same and making the wrong decision, ie. intercepting or even attacking the wrong airliner would be an incredibly brutal error.
Is it even a significant weakness? Jeez, every single person's experience with the military, except for Cap'n, is limited to what we have seen on TV and played on video games.
Looking for a few airliners in one of the busiest transportation corridors in the world must be akin to looking for a few needles in a whole stack of needles. Everything looks the same and making the wrong decision, ie. intercepting or even attacking the wrong airliner would be an incredibly brutal airliner.
Fair enough. But haven't airlines responded by making transponders more difficult/impossible to turn off? I'm sure protocol for intercepting non-responsive airliners has been changed. NORAD was so used to looking "out" of the US for attacks... now, one would think, it's more prepared to respond to attacks generating from within.
When you look at a map of air travel in the morning over the US, the corridor from NYC through Chicago is just a stream of airplanes. It definitely would be difficult to pick out which blip on the radar is the plane you're looking for let alone determine its situation.
So it is a weakness and the US has taken steps to address it... perhaps at this stage of technology, identifying it specifically enough is impossible?
Is it even a significant weakness? Jeez, every single person's experience with the military, except for Cap'n, is limited to what we have seen on TV and played on video games.
Looking for a few airliners in one of the busiest transportation corridors in the world must be akin to looking for a few needles in a whole stack of needles. Everything looks the same and making the wrong decision, ie. intercepting or even attacking the wrong airliner would be an incredibly brutal airliner.
It wasn't a weakness by any stretch, it was what it was.
By 2001 can anyone tell me how many terrorist events had happened in the continental U.S.? How many hijackings had occured at U.S. Territories.
If anything the American's had the same problem that the Japanese Navy had just prior to Midway which was victory fever. They believed that they were untouchable and that the terrorist strategies were to attack higher profile targets outside of the States (IE the Cole).
You can talk about the first World Trade Center attack with the explosives in a van in the parkcade, but honestly that was a very simple and easy to execute concept.
If I was the head of the CIA, and I was told that they had intelligence that terrorists were going to flight school so they could seize four high end complex airplanes turn off the transponders, navigate them around dive to lower altitudes and fly into the twin towers, the Pentagon and possibly the white house I would have laughed my a$$ off because based on previous trends and a bit of a arrogant superiority complex I would think that the plan sounded more like a Tom Clancy novel then something rooted in reality.
While there were threats, I don't believe that the Americans ever thought that the terrorists would have the balls or ability to pull something like that off. In other words victory fever.
And you can see it.
Whether anyone believes it or not, outside of the strategic bomber forces no element of the U.S Airforce was sitting at high alert all day long before 2001. For one thing, keeping an aircraft armed and spooled up for quick deployment is tough on aircrews, aircraft and pilots. Hell, I don't think that Strategic Bomber forces have been on alert since the 90's. The prevelant thinking is that we have lots of time because we can detect bombers or missiles coming in from the ocean and have time for a quick bite before we have to do anything.
In terms on the whole quick intercept stuff that keeps getting talked about. When your tracking 4500 planes and 4 don't have transponders, your not getting accurate information on the 4 planes period. Especially when they're being piloted erractically, and going through multiple course corrections. Again there were only 14 planes in the U.S. that were on alert that day. So to say that they can get the pilots in, spool up the navigation, pull the tags off of the weapons, preflight, roll out, take off, course adjust, get accurate headings from command that doesn't have action links to the FAA so the data is fractured, plus the viability of the accuracy of the information in 30 minutes is stupid at best and ignorant at worst. Plus and I stated it before, pre 9-11, it was against standing orders to push to supersonic for intercepts over the continental U.S. so the close rate is slow. Plus even if you intercepted the planes, who's going to give the order to shoot it down killing hundreds of passengers (thats NCA type stuff) plus lets say that you intercept the plane over New York do you shoot it down and watch it spiral into downtown Manhatten? Because when you shoot an air to air missile at something as large as an airliner, it doesn't explode, it spins in.
America didn't have internal interception zones before 2001, they had no plans to deal with an internal hijacking threat like this, they had victory fever, they had no communication plan between Norad and the FAA where they could share information, and the attack was so likely that I believe that they human instinct was based around the words "Holy Sh$t" Followed by "What should we do?" followed by "I'll call my boss and see what he has to say"
I don't even know if the failure of Norad and the FAA on 9-11 was due to incompetance as much as "We've never seen this before and don't have a contigency plan for it"
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Fair enough. But haven't airlines responded by making transponders more difficult/impossible to turn off? I'm sure protocol for intercepting non-responsive airliners has been changed. NORAD was so used to looking "out" of the US for attacks... now, one would think, it's more prepared to respond to attacks generating from within.
Some of the things that have changed from my understanding
1) The non-supersonic intercept rule over the continental U.S. is no more
2) there is now an active command and control communication link between Norad and the FAA so that information can be quickly shared
3) There are now intercept zones within the U.S. as well as its seaboards
4) There are planes on alert in every intercept zone especially ones involving major cities.
5) Improved command and control for firing orders.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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Alot of the articles (say 1/3 to 1/2) on Alex Jones' website are not written by he or his writers. They often just have links for youtube vids/stories written by other news agencies, some foreign and some mainstream. They just add their own commentary on it and provide the link. It is just easy for me because infowars is a concentrated place for alot of different writings on 9/11.
I have not been to the LaRouche website before today actually, so excuse me on that I see he is a crack pot, but he is not IN the video anyways. The guy in the video has some decent credibility with what he does.
So you didn't know whether it was a crackpot website or not? Why did you say it wasn't as a fact? You are either gullible enough to believe anything that you read and not do any research on your own or you are just as slimy as Alex Jones and crew.
Its aparent Resolute that you know to much and we must commendeer your life. Please wait at your front door, we've dispatched Agent K and Agent J of the MIB to neurlize you with extreme predjudice.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Your an overweight housewife from Fargo, North Dakota. You like sitting around and watching your stories while scratching your back hump with a mop handle.
There are no such things as aliens, evil government conspiracies and super secret societies.
There now you have a life.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
