This is a rebuild

[Jason14h]

Yes

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I would think anyone who pays a significant sum of money to go to every game in a season would understand the cycles of pro sports teams and why rebuilds have to happen.
I wonder how many long time season ticket holders in Calgary are really attached to the decades long results of mostly first round losses/no playoffs. If I were a season ticket holder I would cancel if they were stubborn enough not to rebuild at this stage.

You think wrong. I had seasons tix and you’d be shocked at the people who sat nearby and their general hockey knowledge, let alone the cycles of pro hockey sports teams.

[Calgary4LIfe]

The only years that will be difficult to watch was last year (well, the year before that was actually by far the worst, but they were still in compete mode) as the team was being 'disassembled', and then this upcoming season will be tough as other than Wolf, no real big 'star in the making' that we know about will be playing.


Next season will be exciting as hell - Parekh + whomever the Flames draft at the top of the draft + whomever else graduates too. This year will be a flux year - lots of faces coming in and out of the lineup. It is fine. Still has good enough entertainment.


As for as the Flames not reducing prices but reducing the product - it really depends on your vantage point, no? 2 seasons ago, it was the hardest games to watch in years. Incredibly boring and frustrating. Last year was better. Even entertaining at times. Conroy isn't gutting it to play out 10-0 losses here. It is 5-4 losses.



All we have to do is remember the 2013-14 team - they got applause often in their losses because they worked hard and were fun to watch. That's what I see coming through again, even though they are likely to finish in the bottom 3. There will be no 'incredibly bad' teams this year as there have been with tanker Mctanking teams out there.

[stemit14]

I ended up voting 23rd or better. Somehow, Huberdeau will return to being a 90+ point player again, the Wolf-Vladar tandem will surprise everyone as will the defence of misfit toys. Weegar will emerge like Giordano did in the last rebuild. The flames will have a hot start to the season where the flames surprise a few teams and then likely diminish as the season goes along (similar to Philadelphia last season). Conroy sticks with the plan and still sells at the deadline but the team finishes outside the bottom 10. Will likely frustrate a lot of fans. People will be calling for trades of players during a win streak early in the season just to stop the momentum.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

IF we get 2 or 3 superstars. That’s not guaranteed.
We demanded the rebuild.
We are getting the rebuild.
We need to support the rebuild.

Yes, it's no guarantee, but if you're unable to find superstars in the top 5, you almost certainly wouldn't have found them 10-15.

I hope fans support the rebuild by continuing to show up and spend money but plenty of franchises around the league in worse markets have been bad for a long time and managed. If they can't stomach a few leaner years then I question how much they really care about winning. If they want max profits then build an elite product on the ice and don't be scared to invest in creating that. Companies are expected to invest in themselves to create the products and services' people want. Customers don't have an obligation to fund that process. I think fans will try and do their part but I definitely don't think it should be entirely expected of them either.

[Vinny01]

One thing we need to hope against is the Flames having a year of fortunate bounces that accelerates the timeline due to an anomaly year where they overachieve. This team is very different than the post Iggy rebuild. Outside of Dustin Wolf winning the Calder and Vezina along with sustained high level play from Kadri/Coleman/Weegar and a complete renaissance by Huberdeau I do not see this team having the ability to be competitive.

I think next year should be all about the current young group of prospects from the Treliving era. Coronato, Wolf, Zary, Pelletier, Solovyov, Poirier hopefully all get long looks and stick. Maybe Honzek and Brzustewicz get looks after the deadline but they will be part of the next wave to debut in 25/26 with Parekh and our top 5 pick from 2025 which should get this fanbase very excited.

It will be interesting to see how aggressive Conroy gets in 26/27 or 27/28 whenever the building opens because that is going to be the season where I think they full on come out and announce they plan to make the playoffs

[TheScorpion]

2022-23 was agonizing. Was actively rooting for them to miss the playoffs so they would hopefully make the necessary changes — and, to their credit, they eventually did.

2023-24 started tough as they kept on with the line that they were going to try to keep their UFAs, but once they moved them, they became a lot of fun to watch. Hopefully that continues.

[Bingo]

I put this poll up a few weeks back ... interesting to see the results now starting to flush out.

1) a lot of diversity in response (usually most polls are more concentrated).
2) fans don't see this as team tank
3) majority sees them well out of the playoffs and sitting 27-30

[gvitaly]

I didn't know whero to put this, but I'm actually surprised by the amount of undrafted players that the Flames have. Not to mention 7th round picks:

7th round selections: Weegar, Wolf, Solovyov
Undrafted: Duehr, Hunt, Rooney, Lomberg, Kuzmenko, Miromanov, Hanley, Pachal, and Cooley.

I really look forward to this team embracing the underdog role. I mean that's half the roster! Even if it's the bottom half. And then there are guys like Sharangovich that has been drafted in his D+2 year.

I also hope the Flames scouts find a couple more undrafted prospects they could sign to ELCs.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You would have rebuilt two years ago? When they were in first place? They delayed by a year. Conroy has a plan and the owners are letting him implement the plan. He has loaded up on picks and likely will make a few more trades in the next 12 months and I expect those trades to also generate more picks and prospects.

Really like what he has done on the backend. If two of the 6 or 7 dmen he has picked up actually hit he has a quickly rebuilt backend.

As soon as Gaudreau left and Tkachuk wanted out that was the time to start. Maximize Tkachuk for futures, maximize value with Hanifin and Lindholm having 2 years left, Lindholm coming off a career year. Mangipane career year. You would have set the team up to fall in the deep Bedard draft. You wouldn't be stuck with Huberdeau or Kadri. You'd have a clean slate cap wise. They would 100% be in a much better position today if they started 2 years ago. And the timeline would fit much better with the new arena.

[Jay Random]

Two years ago, they still didn’t have the timeline for the new arena.

And I know this is counterintuitive, but leading up trade deadline day, players with expiring contracts tend to have more value than those with a full year remaining. Teams can move to acquire them without having to worry about clearing space on next year's cap.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Hackey

As soon as Gaudreau left and Tkachuk wanted out that was the time to start. Maximize Tkachuk for futures, maximize value with Hanifin and Lindholm having 2 years left, Lindholm coming off a career year. Mangipane career year. You would have set the team up to fall in the deep Bedard draft. You wouldn't be stuck with Huberdeau or Kadri. You'd have a clean slate cap wise. They would 100% be in a much better position today if they started 2 years ago. And the timeline would fit much better with the new arena.

Yeah, but they didn’t do that.

The rebuild was forced on them and they fought it every step of the way

But since Conroy has been in charge, they have acted sensibly.

They haven’t gone after big free agents.

They have traded guys that want out for at worst, market-rate returns.

So they have Huberdeau, Weegar, and Kadri. Who cares. They have to pay someone. They’re paying have those three and they still have the most cap space in the league. And at least in the case of Weegar and Kadri, I’d rather have them at their deals than anyone who signed on July 1.

7x$7M for Brandon Montour? Yuck.

6x$6.25M for Chandler Stephenson? Hard pass.


Currently, there is only one player in the system who projects to earn an 8-year $8M+ extension by the end of his next deal: Zayne Parekh. If he goes back to the OHL, he will not count against the cap in any significant fashion for four years.

Anyone else who needs a big ticket deal isn’t even drafted yet.

Kadri has five years left. If he were a UFA this year, he’d have gotten better than 5x$7M. Christ, he’d probably get 7x$7M again - it’s not a 35+ contract. If he has another strong year, you can trade him.

You could trade Weegar at any point of his deal, because he’s a top pairing right shot defenseman who plays both sides.

So yeah it sucks having $10.5M tied up in Huberdeau. It also doesn’t matter.

The cap is gonna be $110M in five years, so what is that $10.5M reasonably going to prevent them from doing?

Nothing.

And if Huberdeau spends next season as one of the ten most productive powerplay players in the league (which he was for the final 2 months) then even his contract stops being a problem.

In the here and now, they have four players signed past two years - the three already discussed, and Coleman.

They will either keep good players who want to be here at reasonable numbers, like they have done with Sharangovich, or they will trade them, like they have done with everyone else.

To me, it looks like they’re as close to a blank canvas as you’re gonna get.

[blankall]

My hope for the PP is that it turns kuzmenko back into 40ish goal player and then he's traded for a first. The first unit PP looks like the only complete group of players on the team.

This is a team that went from needing to spend a 1st to shed salary to being at the very bottom of the league cap wise. It's about as blank of a canvas as the cap rules will allow you to get.

As Greenlantern stated, the rules force you to spend money on someone. If that someone isn't producing it just means a higher draft pick. With a rookie goalie this is the Flames best chance ever for a top three pick.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I ended up voting 23rd or better. Somehow, Huberdeau will return to being a 90+ point player again, the Wolf-Vladar tandem will surprise everyone as will the defence of misfit toys. Weegar will emerge like Giordano did in the last rebuild. The flames will have a hot start to the season where the flames surprise a few teams and then likely diminish as the season goes along (similar to Philadelphia last season). Conroy sticks with the plan and still sells at the deadline but the team finishes outside the bottom 10. Will likely frustrate a lot of fans. People will be calling for trades of players during a win streak early in the season just to stop the momentum.

This is nightmare fuel. If you know the conditions of the 1st round pick to Montreal you know why.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

As soon as Gaudreau left and Tkachuk wanted out that was the time to start. Maximize Tkachuk for futures, maximize value with Hanifin and Lindholm having 2 years left, Lindholm coming off a career year. Mangipane career year. You would have set the team up to fall in the deep Bedard draft. You wouldn't be stuck with Huberdeau or Kadri. You'd have a clean slate cap wise. They would 100% be in a much better position today if they started 2 years ago. And the timeline would fit much better with the new arena.

No team in a rebuild ever has a "clean slate" cap wise. SJ didn't - they had Karlsson who they managed to run to a better season and trade. And they had Hertl. Hawks have Jones. Dallas rebuilt while carrying hefty contracts.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Yeah, but they didn’t do that.

The rebuild was forced on them and they fought it every step of the way

But since Conroy has been in charge, they have acted sensibly.

They haven’t gone after big free agents.

They have traded guys that want out for at worst, market-rate returns.

So they have Huberdeau, Weegar, and Kadri. Who cares. They have to pay someone. They’re paying have those three and they still have the most cap space in the league. And at least in the case of Weegar and Kadri, I’d rather have them at their deals than anyone who signed on July 1.

7x$7M for Brandon Montour? Yuck.

6x$6.25M for Chandler Stephenson? Hard pass.


Currently, there is only one player in the system who projects to earn an 8-year $8M+ extension by the end of his next deal: Zayne Parekh. If he goes back to the OHL, he will not count against the cap in any significant fashion for four years.

Anyone else who needs a big ticket deal isn’t even drafted yet.

Kadri has five years left. If he were a UFA this year, he’d have gotten better than 5x$7M. Christ, he’d probably get 7x$7M again - it’s not a 35+ contract. If he has another strong year, you can trade him.

You could trade Weegar at any point of his deal, because he’s a top pairing right shot defenseman who plays both sides.

So yeah it sucks having $10.5M tied up in Huberdeau. It also doesn’t matter.

The cap is gonna be $110M in five years, so what is that $10.5M reasonably going to prevent them from doing?

Nothing.

And if Huberdeau spends next season as one of the ten most productive powerplay players in the league (which he was for the final 2 months) then even his contract stops being a problem.

In the here and now, they have four players signed past two years - the three already discussed, and Coleman.

They will either keep good players who want to be here at reasonable numbers, like they have done with Sharangovich, or they will trade them, like they have done with everyone else.

To me, it looks like they’re as close to a blank canvas as you’re gonna get.

Agree. My only minor quibble (which may eventually become a major one) is the Flames will be paying Huberdeau $10.5m for 7 more years, until he's nearly 39. Those last few years, with him putting up maybe a point for every $500K he's paid, could really hurt unless something changes.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Agree. My only minor quibble (which may eventually become a major one) is the Flames will be paying Huberdeau $10.5m for 7 more years, until he's nearly 39. Those last few years, with him putting up maybe a point for every $500K he's paid, could really hurt unless something changes.

Unless it causes a cap issue, or you are Murray Edwards, does it matter though?

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Unless it causes a cap issue, or you are Murray Edwards, does it matter though?

Cap issues.

In five and six years, this team will hopefully be top of the standings, having Parekh, Coronato, Wolf, Honzek, the 2025 pick, Joe Iginla (Vegas 2026 pick) all making $8-10 million a year, and they won't be able to resign Gavin McKenna to $12m x 8 because Huberdeau's still making his money.

[Bingo Jr.]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Cap issues.

In five and six years, this team will hopefully be top of the standings, having Parekh, Coronato, Wolf, Honzek, the 2025 pick, Joe Iginla (Vegas 2026 pick) all making $8-10 million a year, and they won't be able to resign Gavin McKenna to $12m x 8 because Huberdeau's still making his money.

At least his contract can be moved/bought out by that point.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Agree. My only minor quibble (which may eventually become a major one) is the Flames will be paying Huberdeau $10.5m for 7 more years, until he's nearly 39. Those last few years, with him putting up maybe a point for every $500K he's paid, could really hurt unless something changes.

If Huberdeau is not a functional NHL player when he’s nearly 40, he’ll develop an allergy to his shin pads or something and disappear off the books like Operation Mongoose.