HNIC: Nylander officially on the trade block

[sureLoss]

McKenzie say to expect a 6 year deal around $6.7 mil AAV IF it gets done.


Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
If it gets done, it sure seems like the likelihood (not to be confused with a sure thing) is it being a 6 year deal somewhere just north of David Pastrnak’s 6 x $6.67M. How much North is the obvious key here. I’d be surprised if it’s as high as $7M but we shall see.

[bluejays]

He's no better than Pastrnak, so if I were him I'd sign if that's the offer. I guess the inflated market determines his worth, but there's no way a William Nylander in today's market should be a $7MM/season player. The Leafs messed this up in the off-season by not knowing the party on the other side of the table and making sure he either signed or was dealt. Pretty amateur to be going down these uncharted waters unnecessarily.

[djsFlames]

Lmao extensive all day coverage on a kid either signing or not. Great content Toronto Sports Network.

[powderjunkie]

I like this and hate this similarly from each team's perspective, so maybe it's just crazy enough to work? Various prospects/picks/plugs would fill this out to balance it (possibly salary retentions, too), but how about this for a starting framework:

To Toronto:
McDavid
a good value defenseman or prospect that is very close - not sure who best fits that bill from either team

To Arizona:
Matthews
Lucic (less real $$ than AAV)

To Edmonton:
OEL
Nylander
A few more over-hyped pieces to appease the fan-base (both Ari and Tor have tons of pending RFA forwards I don't know much about)


Edmonton gets the privilege of overpaying another young forward who has been propped up by playing beside/behind generational talents, while dumping a boat anchor contract. Their defence would pretty quickly become pretty decent by parachuting in a legit #1, and everyone else could play in the slot they actually belong.

Toronto is giving up the most, but also getting the best player in the deal. If the Matthews vs. Babcock tension is legit, it resolves that, and gives cost certainty going forward (maybe they could keep Matthews signed to an 11M Tavares limit, but McDavid is probably worth the extra 1.25). Not saying Matthews is injury-prone, but it is at least a little concerning. Otherwise it's flipping Nylander into futures/a cheap defensemen, which is the likely outcome anyways.

Arizona pushes their chips into the middle and brings the prodigal son home. Creates a big hole in defence, but they have enough forward pieces to flip and fix if needed. It basically turns their team into Edmonton's structure for the last decade, but it might not be so bad since they don't have quite the same culture of false-hope and unrealistic expectations. They have to take on Lucic, but otherwise they're flipping OEL for Matthews, which is pretty much a no brainer.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Azure

Everyone likes to say oh its just business, and players have the right to do this forget that many great players have taken discounts to play on good teams, play with certain teammates, or play on certain teams. Just because the salary cap era has driven up player contracts it doesn't mean every single guy coming out an entry level deal needs to max out their second contract because they have put up decent #s.

I actually think the ethical thing for RFAs to do is to take player-friendly contracts. Just as the ethical thing for UFAs to do is to take team-friendly contracts.

When I say ethical, I mean in terms of setting good comparables for others such that no one is underpaid or overpaid relative to what they are worth.

Underpaying guys during their RFA years only for them to become dead weight contracts upon UFA benefits no one. It's how you end up with guys like Lucic playing out the string and eventually being bought out. Guys deserve to be paid market value, and that market value should be higher for prime years, not for post-apex years.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

For the team it is simple. You have 17.8 million in cap space available. Yearly net profits for the team are estimated around 76 million dollars. The team is holding out because they do not want to pay one half of one percent of their yearly profits (even less since they will not have to pay the full 300K.

And what do they get for not paying the 300K? As mentioned above they get the 300K. In a world where they do not sign Nylander to any contract, they probably save around 6 million dollars. This is real money now, that is equal to 7.8 percent of profits. Perhaps the money making strategy for the Leafs is to not pay anyone.

Downside to this strategy is whatever revenue they miss out on from a playoff run that is longer with Nylander than it is without him. But I am not surprised by the scheer incompetence of the Leafs, a normal team would pay the money and try to win a Cup, but not the Leafs. Idiots.

But to me it is odd to be driving such a hard bargain over 300K when your corporation makes 76 million a year. But I guess this type of logic is why the Leafs have been so successful over the years.

I think the profits the team makes are irrelevant. MLSE is a very successful business regardless of whether the team is good or not.

But, with the salary cap things are different. The Leafs know they will need to resign Matthews to a big contract, plus other guys, so yes the $300,000 can make a difference.

If you want to compare money lost / gained, Nylander is losing far more. Plus there is his whole reputation. Nobody will say it, but I'm sure willing trade participants are paying attention because he will probably sign 2 more contracts, and negotiating those takes give / take / common sense from both sides, and its obvious the Nylander camp has zero of that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Lmao extensive all day coverage on a kid either signing or not. Great content Toronto Sports Network.

Meh if this was a flame we would be glued to the coverage too
What else is TSN going to put on Saturday afternoon? Poker?
Makes total sense that they are covering it in this way.
It’s a big story about Canada’s most popular team

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

McKenzie say to expect a 6 year deal around $6.7 mil AAV IF it gets done.


Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
If it gets done, it sure seems like the likelihood (not to be confused with a sure thing) is it being a 6 year deal somewhere just north of David Pastrnak’s 6 x $6.67M. How much North is the obvious key here. I’d be surprised if it’s as high as $7M but we shall see.

If true, the Flames have a definite chance to get Tkachuk done for 6*$6.75M if they want to sign him for less than 8 years.

https://twitter.com/RyanNPike/status...96070078349312

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I actually think the ethical thing for RFAs to do is to take player-friendly contracts. Just as the ethical thing for UFAs to do is to take team-friendly contracts.

When I say ethical, I mean in terms of setting good comparables for others such that no one is underpaid or overpaid relative to what they are worth.

Underpaying guys during their RFA years only for them to become dead weight contracts upon UFA benefits no one. It's how you end up with guys like Lucic playing out the string and eventually being bought out. Guys deserve to be paid market value, and that market value should be higher for prime years, not for post-apex years.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be paid based on what his value is.

But his value is different from team to team. Is he better than Gaudreau? Monahan? Does he deserve more money than those guys? To the Flames those guys were valued at a certain level based on upcoming contracts, how the team is built, incoming free agents, etc.

To the Leafs the value is different. They have a top tier contract (which the Flames don't) so the value will change a bit. It also means that Nylander isn't the top level guy on that team, and therefore he shouldn't get paid top level money.

Monahan signed his deal very quickly, and Gaudreau made sure he was signed without missing any actual games. And both signed for less than what we could deem their market value to be.

At the end of the day there are a lot of factors going on from team to team, contract to contract, but anyone who looks at the Leafs right now sees Matthews and Tavares as the top level, top contract guys, and therefore Nylander is either NOT going to be that, or he will be expendable. His stupid schtick of thinking he is a top level contract guy has massively backfired and I wouldn't be amazed if he were traded as a result.

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1068913841101254657

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So you're saying that the Leafs are the favourites to win the Cup with Nylander on the roster, and have no chance whatever without him? Hmmmm. Maybe the foolish party in the conversation isn't who you think it is.

You make up something I didn’t say and then call me foolish?

Please don’t do that.

[David Struch]

Eklund says a new trade partner is gaining steam...one team is still talking salary..

[dino7c]

I wouldn't give them one penny of a discount either...why would you? they are gonna trade you this summer at the longest.
"we are not gonna beg anyone to play for the Leafs"

yeah great but look at your cap, Marner and Matthews won't be talking a discount...would you want to be the fourth wheel who takes less and then gets traded?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think the profits the team makes are irrelevant. MLSE is a very successful business regardless of whether the team is good or not.

But, with the salary cap things are different. The Leafs know they will need to resign Matthews to a big contract, plus other guys, so yes the $300,000 can make a difference.

If you want to compare money lost / gained, Nylander is losing far more. Plus there is his whole reputation. Nobody will say it, but I'm sure willing trade participants are paying attention because he will probably sign 2 more contracts, and negotiating those takes give / take / common sense from both sides, and its obvious the Nylander camp has zero of that.

I highly doubt the owners of the Leafs are fine with making less money because of the salary cap.

Most business people would take the extra 5-7 million an extra round in the playoffs would earn MLSE for the 300K difference. If I was the owners and the GM told me that Nylander wanted an extra 300K but that we could trade him in the offseason and I thought that Nylander could help us win an extra round in the playoffs vs. saving the money and leaving the asset on the bench I would tell the GM to quit being an idiot and sign the player for the extra 300K. Especially at this point, since the extra 300K would actually cost 200K.

If someone made 76K at their business and they were told if they spent 200 dollars on an investment it had the opportunity bring them in 5000 to 7000 dollars and there was even a 10 percent chance that was true, they would invest the money. #### most people would do that for a 5 percent chance or lower.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Meh if this was a flame we would be glued to the coverage too
What else is TSN going to put on Saturday afternoon? Poker?
Makes total sense that they are covering it in this way.
It’s a big story about Canada’s most popular team

Fan 960 would spend all morning discussing Dube being sent down and who his replacement should be. Still doesn’t make for good sports talk.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I highly doubt the owners of the Leafs are fine with making less money because of the salary cap.

Most business people would take the extra 5-7 million an extra round in the playoffs would earn MLSE for the 300K difference. If I was the owners and the GM told me that Nylander wanted an extra 300K but that we could trade him in the offseason and I thought that Nylander could help us win an extra round in the playoffs vs. saving the money and leaving the asset on the bench I would tell the GM to quit being an idiot and sign the player for the extra 300K. Especially at this point, since the extra 300K would actually cost 200K.

If someone made 76K at their business and they were told if they spent 200 dollars on an investment it had the opportunity bring them in 5000 to 7000 dollars and there was even a 10 percent chance that was true, they would invest the money. #### most people would do that for a 5 percent chance or lower.

You focus too much on the owners / profits.

This is about the salary cap and the structure of the Leafs going forward. $300k is a big deal if you know you will be up against the cap.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Eklund says a new trade partner is gaining steam...one team is still talking salary..

Eklund says a LOT of things...none of them are based on fact.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Fan 960 would spend all morning discussing Dube being sent down and who his replacement should be. Still doesn’t make for good sports talk.

Still better than baseball, Rome, or some American feed with a guy talking about college football.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Azure

You focus too much on the owners / profits.

This is about the salary cap and the structure of the Leafs going forward. $300k is a big deal if you know you will be up against the cap.

300K will be approximately 4 tenths of one percent of the cap next year, not a big deal at all.

For the owners making money is way more important than 4 tenths of one percent of the cap.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

300K will be approximately 4 tenths of one percent of the cap next year, not a big deal at all.

For the owners making money is way more important than 4 tenths of one percent of the cap.

So what you are arguing is that if there was no salary cap in place, that the Leafs still woudn't have Nylander signed because of....profits?