I know you're downplaying racism against whites, which I actually understand - I don't get upset seeing these insults at least.
But it is really really weird that the NYT would hire a person who openly holds racist views. It's weirder still to see all the people defending it on twitter.
Either being prejudiced is okay, or it isn't.
If you down playing racism you are a racist. Not sure why there are racists on this site?
"she responded to that harassment by imitating the rhetoric of her harassers"
That's a pretty weird justification. How did she know that her online harassers were white, and why would that justify her comments about white people in general? That seems like the definition of racism to me.
Isn’t it Satire at that point though and therefore acceptable.
Eating the poor was never an actual proposal this is the modern analog.
Are you offended by her comments or offended by the perceived double standard?
I am not offended by anything. She is free is believe or say as she wishes. There appears to be a double standard for sure but i am not too upset by it because these things tend to right themselves - stupid ideas don't generally last.
I don't really see much difference between the extreme right and left - they both hate - they just don't hate the same things - and neither have the moral high ground - it's both stupid.
Last edited by MelBridgeman; 08-02-2018 at 09:00 PM.
Are you offended by her comments or offended by the perceived double standard?
I don't think you have to be personally offended by the comments to believe that these kind of comments are wrong.
Should we not treat people as people? Why categorize them? Why make race the most important thing about you or others?
If it is satire, or another joke, who's to say the original comments that sparked this situation (note that these are not replies, but original tweets) weren't jokes? Or jokes about other races? Or genders? Or religions? Who loses their job, who gets a job, who's a bigot?
I don't think you have to be personally offended by the comments to believe that these kind of comments are wrong.
Should we not treat people as people? Why categorize them? Why make race the most important thing about you or others?
If it is satire, or another joke, who's to say the original comments that sparked this situation (note that these are not replies, but original tweets) weren't jokes? Or jokes about other races? Or genders? Or religions? Who loses their job, who gets a job, who's a bigot?
weird
I think intent matters in all cases. Is the intent to advocate further hate and discrimination against people? If it isn’t I don’t think it’s racist. Like the ridiculous outrage over the white girl saying n***** in the song when she was on stage. That clearly wasn’t racist despite using a racist word. So context definately matters. Something being a joke and something being satire are different. I would doubt that the harassment she had previously received was ever intended as Satire. If it was then I think you could defend it if it was an honest position. Thought being in the majority and in the position of power making comments against a minority would be pretty difficult to be satire.
We should treat people as people I agree however if I’m not offended, and your not offended, and Mel’s not offended, and no white people feel offended then did an offense really happen. Racism is bad because it limits opportunity for people, people face real physical hardship because of racism so expressing it causes real harm. I’d be interested in hearing from the people who now work for her, if those people now feel they will be treated differently as a result of being male and white then her tweets would have had a negative affect do to the race of a person but I can’t see harm in any other place. And if no one is a victim how can there be a perpetrator?
I think intent matters in all cases. Is the intent to advocate further hate and discrimination against people? If it isn’t I don’t think it’s racist. Like the ridiculous outrage over the white girl saying n***** in the song when she was on stage. That clearly wasn’t racist despite using a racist word. So context definately matters. Something being a joke and something being satire are different. I would doubt that the harassment she had previously received was ever intended as Satire. If it was then I think you could defend it if it was an honest position. Thought being in the majority and in the position of power making comments against a minority would be pretty difficult to be satire.
We should treat people as people I agree however if I’m not offended, and your not offended, and Mel’s not offended, and no white people feel offended then did an offense really happen. Racism is bad because it limits opportunity for people, people face real physical hardship because of racism so expressing it causes real harm. I’d be interested in hearing from the people who now work for her, if those people now feel they will be treated differently as a result of being male and white then her tweets would have had a negative affect do to the race of a person but I can’t see harm in any other place. And if no one is a victim how can there be a perpetrator?
Okay, this is a fair stance, and it seems like you are applying it consistently, so I can agree with you.
Okay, this is a fair stance, and it seems like you are applying it consistently, so I can agree with you.
It is a fair stance and it is probably a wide held stance - but with todays' media (some)/twitter/youtube/tumblr/instagram/facebook ect ect it's not the perception - it's toxic on both sides and quite frankly could contribute to another Republican reelection..and if your are a middle of the road Liberal (like me) it should piss you right off
It is a fair stance and it is probably a wide held stance - but with todays' media (some)/twitter/youtube/tumblr/instagram/facebook ect ect it's not the perception - it's toxic on both sides and quite frankly could contribute to another Republican reelection..and if your are a middle of the road Liberal (like me) it should piss you right off
I guess the argument would be that the people who are defending Jeong generally aren't the same people who condemned that girl for signing the N word on stage at a concert.
Maybe it's a vocal minority from both sides of the discussion, but it certainly frustrates and confuses me.
in which a light skinned black kid acting as a stand in for a darker skinned black kid had his face darkened.
At this point virtually everyone must recognize that we're all enacting a kind of bizarre ritual when it comes to these apologies. This incident was not black face, and there was a perfectly legitimate reason to darken the actor's skin. Nobody sane really believes any harm was done, but we all have to act like there was.
We look back and shake our heads at the idiocy of the Satanic panic of the 80s. In 10 or 15 years we'll look back at today's hysteria around race and representation the same way.
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I guess the argument would be that the people who are defending Jeong generally aren't the same people who condemned that girl for signing the N word on stage at a concert.
Maybe it's a vocal minority from both sides of the discussion, but it certainly frustrates and confuses me.
Possibly but the NYT look like hypocrites here
Quote:
Quinn Norton — who was named as the Times’ “lead opinion writer on the power, culture and consequences of technology” — ended her very short tenure after controversy erupted over her use of racial and homophobic slurs on Twitter.
At this point virtually everyone must recognize that we're all enacting a kind of bizarre ritual when it comes to these apologies. This incident was not black face, and there was a perfectly legitimate reason to darken the actor's skin. Nobody sane really believes any harm was done, but we all have to act like there was.
We look back and shake our heads at the idiocy of the Satanic panic of the 80s. In 10 or 15 years we'll look back at today's hysteria around race and representation the same way.
Here is a better explanation of the context of Sarah Joeng's "racist" tweets. Good on the New York times for not falling for the usual alt right BS manufactured outrage. She was reacting to gamergate style harassment, which she receives ceaselessly, and she apologized. She was screaming at trolls. She is actually a pretty good journalist. As an old white guy, I am not threatened by Sarah's words in the least, knowing the context.
Last edited by Red Ice Player; 08-04-2018 at 10:59 AM.
Here is a better explanation of the context of Sarah Joeng's "racist" tweets. Good on the New York times for not falling for the usual alt right BS manufactured outrage. She was reacting to gamergate style harassment, which she receives ceaselessly, and she apologized. She was screaming at trolls. She is actually a pretty good journalist. As an old white guy, I am not threatened by Sarah's words in the least, knowing the context.
Seriously dude... That leftist article is hilarious, no bias at all.
Seriously dude... That leftist article is hilarious, no bias at all.
And yet the NYT agrees, and stands by their hire. They know the outrage is fake. Did you read the article? Have you read any of her writing? She is a woman who writes about technology. She is a target of racist mysogynistic trolls. Do you know what gamergate is? I think I'll go read me some more leftist articles. Thanks dude.
And yet the NYT agrees, and stands by their hire. They know the outrage is fake. Did you read the article? Have you read any of her writing? She is a woman who writes about technology. She is a target of racist mysogynistic trolls. Do you know what gamergate is? I think I'll go read me some more leftist articles. Thanks dude.
The people who troll her are disgusting. But her tweets aren't directed specifically at them, but at an entire race. #cancelwhitepeople... Really? I can't see why you would defend someone who hates you.
The people who troll her are disgusting. But her tweets aren't directed specifically at them, but at an entire race. #cancelwhitepeople... Really? I can't see why you would defend someone who hates you.
Because it’s Satire.
More problematic is their firing of Quinn given it appears that her offense is associating with Nazis before they said they were Nazis.
Here is a better explanation of the context of Sarah Joeng's "racist" tweets. Good on the New York times for not falling for the usual alt right BS manufactured outrage. She was reacting to gamergate style harassment, which she receives ceaselessly, and she apologized. She was screaming at trolls. She is actually a pretty good journalist. As an old white guy, I am not threatened by Sarah's words in the least, knowing the context.
The concept that you could only be offended by these tweets if you are a follower of the alt right is pretty asinine. It's a great way to deflect responsibility of those comments.
Even if you assume that these tweets were retaliations against alt right trolls, how does that justify these comments against an entire race?
There are hundreds of tweets from her over several years that target white people. I was willing to accept the possibility of this being satire before I saw how rampant this actually was on her account.
Defranco nails it as usual.
Last edited by Ashasx; 08-04-2018 at 12:38 PM.
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