I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat

[TheScorpion]

Hamilton is a -3 right now. Not terrible, on a team where TJ Brodie is an astounding -12.

But, in reality, who cares about +/-? The whole team, including Brodie and Dougie, has been playing far, far better as of late. No need to worry.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Hamilton had a few poor stretches that effectively crushed the resurgence of his +/-. -6 in a four game stretch later in the year for example.

For a 22 year old blueliner that's not too shocking. Brodie was a -9 in a shortened lockout season at the same age.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

As Hamilton goes, so will the Flames.

Wow, he must be an amazingly important and awesome player then!

Clearly underpaid, if that is the case.

[FlamesFan68]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

He ended the season at like - 14 though right? Not that it really matters, the whole team was terrible defensively.

Notice how well the Flames were doing at the end of the season too? Fans were complaining then that we should lose to get better draft position then. Again, when Hamilton is playing ok we win, when he's playing like horse **** we lose. He gets big minutes, so it's hard to get around that. These slow starts are killing the Flames year after year. There needs to be more mirror time for the Flames overall when it comes to these slow starts.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

Notice how well the Flames were doing at the end of the season too? Fans were complaining then that we should lose to get better draft position then. Again, when Hamilton is playing ok we win, when he's playing like horse **** we lose. He gets big minutes, so it's hard to get around that. These slow starts are killing the Flames year after year. There needs to be more mirror time for the Flames overall when it comes to these slow starts.

Umm... no, we weren't. I can't think of any sustained instances of fans supporting tanking on this forum.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

The team doesn't live or die by one player. Not in hockey.

The fact remains that this team is short on talent and is still missing pieces that likely won't be filled after this season when some bad contracts come off the books.

But you can't lay all the blame on Hamilton. Teams dream of a player like him. He still has lots of time to get better.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

The team doesn't live or die by one player. Not in hockey.

They can, by the goalie, and often do

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

They can, by the goalie, and often do

Fair enough. Didn't really consider the goalie.

[FlamesFan68]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Umm... no, we weren't. I can't think of any sustained instances of fans supporting tanking on this forum.

At that time I was listening to Flames Fan on 960 on after hours. Of course not directly asking for the Flames to lose, but insisting losing is a good thing right now. The season is gone. Management said we won't ask the Flames to lose intentionally (good for them), they want to develop a winning atmosphere. Unfortunately, that atmosphere, didn't carry into October. It's the way the Flames seem to do things, slow start/fast finish/miss playoffs pick 4th through 7th.

[dirk diggler]

its funny that we as fans think the moves BT makes are pretty good, i.e hamilton, elliot. you didnt have a lot of fans questioning these moves, but they just havent worked. the team is further from being elite than they were 2 years ago. it isnt like BT is signing guys like Semin to big deals, his moves make sense but something is clearly wrong.

[JiriHrdina]

On ice they are further away from being elite, but organizationally I don't agree that they are. I think they are still in a better position to evolve into a contender.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

On ice they are further away from being elite, but organizationally I don't agree that they are. I think they are still in a better position to evolve into a contender.

i agree, their are clearly better pieces now than 2 years ago but this team should be better and having a team that is better on paper doesnt cut it. it cant be the coaches fault all the time, team needs an 18 year old rookie to supply the intensity? not good

[killer_carlson]

dare I say that this current roster needs team needs Iginla?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

i agree, their are clearly better pieces now than 2 years ago but this team should be better and having a team that is better on paper doesnt cut it. it cant be the coaches fault all the time, team needs an 18 year old rookie to supply the intensity? not good

Oh I agree about it not being the coach's fault. But I also think BT needs more time to assemble a complete team.
In my opinion there are 3 critical pieces missing
- #1 RW which is preventing the team from having balanced lines
- 2nd pairing dman, which is causing whoever is paired with the dman playing over his head, to also have their performance suffer
- #1 goalie

If BT deserves blame for anything it is not addressing the tending. But that is easier said than done. I'm glad he didn't give up assets for a guy like Andersson or Bishop.

When I look around the league the number of consistent high performing number one goalies is actually quite small.

But it needs to be addressed.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

i agree, their are clearly better pieces now than 2 years ago but this team should be better and having a team that is better on paper doesnt cut it. it cant be the coaches fault all the time, team needs an 18 year old rookie to supply the intensity? not good

I know what you're getting at but you can't focus on results-oriented thinking if you want to build a great team. That's how you end up signing David Clarksons and hiring Randy Carlyles. Brad's moves usually follow some kind of logic (though I do agree that he has been slipping lately, ever since the Byron waiving) and I feel much more confident in this GM to build a contender than I would in most GM's in this league. BT's good enough at what he does to make it not worth the risk of replacing him with a new one.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Oh I agree about it not being the coach's fault. But I also think BT needs more time to assemble a complete team.
In my opinion there are 3 critical pieces missing
- #1 RW which is preventing the team from having balanced lines
- 2nd pairing dman, which is causing whoever is paired with the dman playing over his head, to also have their performance suffer
- #1 goalie

If BT deserves blame for anything it is not addressing the tending. But that is easier said than done. I'm glad he didn't give up assets for a guy like Andersson or Bishop.

When I look around the league the number of consistent high performing number one goalies is actually quite small.

But it needs to be addressed.

I would argue that Brouwer is Treliving's choice as a #1 RW. This has proven to be a bad move though it might have had a little bit of logic at the time. Hopefully he can wizard his way out of it.

2nd pairing d-man is still on the list. His hands are tied with the lack of cap space but we've seen Brad aggressively target any perceived areas of weakness every off season? We have no defensive prospects? Trade for Hamilton and draft the swedes. We have no right wingers? Sign Vey, Pribyl, Brouwer, and Chiasson. We have no goalies? Sign Elliott and Johnson. Brad will be working hard on plugging this hole in the summer for sure.

#1 goalie. While I'm happy that Brad didn't trade Tkachuk for Bishop, that is the price for an elite starter on a good contract. Elliott and Johnson were an excellent backup plan, even if Elliott has been kind of bad.

[killer_carlson]

I think there is a problem with the coaching staff

I think there is a problem with the leadership group amongst the players

And i think the GM is too gunshy to do anything about it

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I would argue that Brouwer is Treliving's choice as a #1 RW. This has proven to be a bad move though it might have had a little bit of logic at the time. Hopefully he can wizard his way out of it.

I think he knows Brouwer isn't a top line winger, but signed him given the complete absence of anyone on that side.
And I don't know that it has proven to be a bad move.
For the most part I've been find with Brouwer's play.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think he knows Brouwer isn't a top line winger, but signed him given the complete absence of anyone on that side.
And I don't know that it has proven to be a bad move.
For the most part I've been find with Brouwer's play.

Brouwer has been fine. I've been impressed with his defensive stickwork especially. But I feel like good teams spend 4.5 million a little better than a middle sixer with good intangibles and decent defensive skills. I can't really blame him for not producing because nobody has.

[JiriHrdina]

So who would you have signed instead? Or would you have entered the season without addressing the position at all?

[flamesrule14]

Brouwer has been fine for the most part, but at times I've been surprised by how quiet his game has been. I'd like to see him muck it up a bit more and get in the dirty areas. A few games lately he's just been too quiet for my liking.