The 2016 US American Election Thread

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I understand the perspective and sounds like there is some evidence on the whole legal fees thing, but then I step back and I ask "Why?". Why would someone with billions in net worth, millions and millions of cash on hand, risk any sort of bad publicity or scandal over a few hundred thousand in legal fees?

If there is no logical reason, and it doesn't really make much business or personal sense, then to me, I would imagine it is either a mix up on the billing side, payment side, or maybe he really did use their funds to pay for it. Who knows, but for Trump and the foundation he has funded, it is chump change.

Scandal for scandal's sake, much like his taxes and the email thing with Hillary.

Either way, regardless of what I think, the voters don't see it as a big deal, except those that already weren't going to vote for him.

Trump is a moron, and he would bring this exact moron-ness to the Presidency. Giving him the the benefit of the doubt is giving a stupid person that benefit of doubt. Lol, why be a Trump hipster about this?

[Ducay]

Good take from liberal MSNBC's Morning Joe on the taxes, Clinton, and the current election status. Video in linked tweet

https://twitter.com/Morning_Joe/stat...55075099594752

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I understand the perspective and sounds like there is some evidence on the whole legal fees thing, but then I step back and I ask "Why?". Why would someone with billions in net worth, millions and millions of cash on hand, risk any sort of bad publicity or scandal over a few hundred thousand in legal fees?

If there is no logical reason, and it doesn't really make much business or personal sense, then to me, I would imagine it is either a mix up on the billing side, payment side, or maybe he really did use their funds to pay for it. Who knows, but for Trump and the foundation he has funded, it is chump change.

Scandal for scandal's sake, much like his taxes and the email thing with Hillary.

Either way, regardless of what I think, the voters don't see it as a big deal, except those that already weren't going to vote for him.

The key questions are: is he really a billionaire? Does he really have millions of dollars cash on hand? He has always played fast and loose with financial definitions. He has been shown to have counted buildings he paid for naming rights as assets that he owns. I think it's quite likely he says income at times, when he really means revenue. I think it's also likely he says net worth when he really means asset values and probably exaggerated asset values at that. The way he has handled his finances through this elections could suggest he really doesn't have access to a lot of cash. His secrecy about what he releases shows he has something to hide, and I really think what he is hiding is that he is not actually a rich man.

I think that is a key fact too, because I've talked to a couple Trump supporters and the number one reason they are voting for him is because they think he is a wildly successful business man, and can bring that same success to running the country.

[photon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Crapping on Vets: I agree the media blew it out of proportion

Did they? The headlines are using his own words, and the articles I read didn't say Trump was calling veterans weak, they said his intention appeared to be compassion but his words were demonstrating ignorance and perpetuating a dangerous stigma about mental health.

I saw the same thing about Clinton's comments about Bernie supporters in their basement. The headlines made it sound like some really bad comment, but in context she wasn't insulting anyone but sympathizing with young people trying to get jobs after the recession, trying to get out on their own.

I mean some sites of course blew both out of proportion, but fringe sites are going to do that with everything.

Judging reaction by headlines (which are designed to be click bait more often than not) probably isn't advisable.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I understand the perspective and sounds like there is some evidence on the whole legal fees thing, but then I step back and I ask "Why?". Why would someone with billions in net worth, millions and millions of cash on hand, risk any sort of bad publicity or scandal over a few hundred thousand in legal fees?

If there is no logical reason, and it doesn't really make much business or personal sense, then to me, I would imagine it is either a mix up on the billing side, payment side, or maybe he really did use their funds to pay for it. Who knows, but for Trump and the foundation he has funded, it is chump change.

Scandal for scandal's sake, much like his taxes and the email thing with Hillary.

Either way, regardless of what I think, the voters don't see it as a big deal, except those that already weren't going to vote for him.

Why? Because he's not very bright and he's cheap, he's a shyster, it's in his genes. It doesn't matter how much money he might have, and I doubt it's in the billions, if he can steal a dollar from a rube he will.

You're just a mark to him, we all are, like all con men he has no moral foundation but also he's not that bright, con men never are, if he hadn't had a very rich father he'd be selling second hand cars from a trailer lot in Queens or time shares, that's who he is.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I think that is a key fact too, because I've talked to a couple Trump supporters and the number one reason they are voting for him is because they think he is a wildly successful business man, and can bring that same success to running the country.

Many people are saying too that he would be far wealthier if he just invested his father's gifts, than try to build a real estate empire.

http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-yo...-donald-trump/

Forbes reports Donald Trump is worth $4.1 billion; Trump says $10 billion. Either way, he’d be worth a lot more if he simply retired 30 years ago and put his money in an unmanaged stock fund.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Why? Because he's not very bright and he's cheap, he's a shyster, it's in his genes. It doesn't matter how much money he might have, and I doubt it's in the billions, if he can steal a dollar from a rube he will.

You're just a mark to him, we all are, like all con men he has no moral foundation but also he's not that bright, con men never are, if he hadn't had a very rich father he'd be selling second hand cars from a trailer lot in Queens or time shares, that's who he is.

Old article, but still relevant.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/don...ter-2015-07-22

[afc wimbledon]

One of the best life experiences I ever had was working at A&B sound back in the early nineties, everyone should do a little straight up sales work in their life I think, it teaches you that the guys that are good at sales in any retail field, be it cars or stereo or real estate tend to be, and it's not always but I found mostly, complete sociopaths that have the ability to tell you any bull#### and for the few seconds it comes out of their mouths, believe it completely, even though they know it's an utter lie.

That's all Trump is, he's just a sales guy, there's no long term plan, there's no thought for next week, he's just saying what ever he has to to sell us the product, in Trumps case he's the product.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I guess I'll keep playing team Trump. Happy to be the punching bag here.

Taxes: He had a $1B loss, these losses carry forward. Just like you and I and everyone else does with their taxes. Somehow framing it the way the media and Dems are makes it a ghastly negative. Heck, even Clinton had losses on her returns she carried forward/back (the horror!).

The problem is you don't know why he claimed that loss or what mechanism he used.

As a real estate developer he is able to take on and guarantee various debts personally even though he may never have actually put a dime of his own money in something. So is this a claimed loss based on other peoples money? In addition, at some point he should have to claim the revenue that offsets that loss. It's supposed to be a temporary thing and usually is. Except if, you know, say you are actually not solvent and then "poof" you never have to and instead just gave yourself a huge write off on the backs of your investors.

That's why it is important to know what he's done with his taxes and mechanisms he used. They indeed may be "legal" but legal and ethical are not the same thing. And that matters. It's also important because he is loudly proclaiming that he's sooooo smart that only he can fix these things yet NONE of his proposals address the real estate developer tax loopholes he is (likely) using. In fact his proposals from what I've read will give developers more leeway. He's in it for himself. Not for the country but for himself and his business.

He doesn't want to release the taxes because:
1) he isn't as rich as he says he is which is a massive public ego bashing and shows unequivically he is a massive liar and/or
2) he hasn't paid taxes in a very long time which on the surface doesn't reflect well on him and/or
3) when people find out how he doesn't pay taxes AND that his proposals wouldn't do anything but give him even more loopholes it's the end of campaign

My guess is it is #1 and #3 that he is worried about.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I certainly wouldn't call him a role model, but to each their own, I guess?







http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/03/politi...ate/index.html

Annnnnnnnd backtracking

Sen. Kelly Ayotte, R-N.H., said she “misspoke” Monday when she said during a debate that Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump would be a role model for her children.

“I misspoke tonight,” Ayotte said in a statement. “While I would hope all of our children would aspire to be president, neither Donald Trump nor Hillary Clinton have set a good example and I wouldn’t hold up either of them as role models for my kids.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ayotte-tr...141029332.html

[photon]

No question that not paying taxes when you don't have to isn't in itself wrong.

The whole situation though just further illustrates that Trump doesn't have any principles or core values which guides what he says and does, he just says and does whatever he thinks will benefit him in the moment.

Trump's complained and criticized many times in the past about people not paying taxes! He actually accused Obama of saying "do as I say and not as I do" about how much Obama paid in taxes (which was a lot more than 0%). EDIT: Or his more recent comments about Amazon's taxes or "hedge fund guys" or companies leaving the US.

That's what Clinton should be using, and focusing more on her plans for tax changes.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Annnnnnnnd backtracking



https://www.yahoo.com/news/ayotte-tr...141029332.html

Not shocking. GOP leaders are rapidly backing away from Trump after his past week. McConnell wouldn't even answer questions about Trump yesterday because he chose not to. They are going to pressure everyone behind the scenes who wants to be part of the GOP moving forward to not publicly support Trump.

I almost think you are going to see defacto endorsement of Clinton from GOP leadership in the next couple of weeks (like the Bushes are giving her) and hoping to hold onto Congress and what not so they can play the obstruction game for another 4 years and give it another go. They may not be vocal about denouncing Trump but their silence will start to be noticeable. It already is when the only surrogates he can seemingly use right now are Giuliani and Christie.

[Izzle]

The GOP in general are so spineless. Anyone read Obama's Op-ed?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...cfce?section=&

Another favorite was Paul Ryan, when asked the day after the debates on what he thought about them... his response, I didnt see the debate. 4 reel, cuz? The first debate between the party's nominees and he didnt see it?

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Izzle

The GOP in general are so spineless. Anyone read Obama's Op-ed?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...cfce?section=&

Another favorite was Paul Ryan, when asked the day after the debates on what he thought about them... his response, I didnt see the debate. 4 reel, cuz? The first debate between the party's nominees and he didnt see it?

Silence is all the have for the most part. They messed up by letting it get this far and they know it. From early on in the nomination process they should have seen the support the likes of Carson, Cruz and Trump were getting and said "uh oh, we need to do something". What they needed to do was rally around moderate that wasn't named Bush (Kasich).

They didn't and they also know they can't publicly endorse a candidate from another party or they are dead in the future as the party will completely splinter at that point. Like the reform/PC split in Canada they will never have a chance of gaining power (and it's all about gaining power...not doing the right thing or doing good).

Spineless? perhaps. but most likely looking out for #1 moving forward. For a normal voting populace the silence should be deafening but the US populace is in general woefully uninformed. I will give credit to Romney who sometime in the last 4 years seemed to maybe grow a spine as he's the only one that has consistently spoke out against Trump.

We already knew Ryan was spineless when he let them browbeat him into becoming speaker.

[octothorp]

The losses really show what's behind the whole weirdness of the Trump Foundation. That NOL likely meant that he wasn't going to get any deductions from donating to his charity (so he didn't), while directing people to donate directly to the foundation rather than paying him would have preserved the amount of NOL he had available to cancel out his income. As well, if that's the case, then the fact that he's still not donating to his charity means that it's possible that he's still not paying taxes.

[Gozer]

Has anyone seen a good Tump = richest man in Qarth joke? Seems like a fools-gold-mine

[Senator Clay Davis]

This will end well without a doubt

Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
I will be watching the great Governor @Mike_Pence and live tweeting the VP debate tonight starting at 8:30pm est! Enjoy!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...91423663964160

[puffnstuff]

I am hoping Kaine asks Pence how his microphone is.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

This will end well without a doubt

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...91423663964160

Man, that's essentially an invitation for Kaine to bait him. Pence / Trump could conceivably win the debate but lose the night if some crazy Trump tweet becomes the main takeaway.

Also, I'm not totally convinced Trump has the attention span to watch 90 minutes of political discussion. It wouldn't surprise me if through last half-hour Trump is either nowhere to be seen or on a totally different tangent than the debate.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by octothorp

It wouldn't surprise me if through last half-hour Trump is either nowhere to be seen or on a totally different tangent than the debate.

You mean just like his own debate performance?