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Old 10-25-2016, 05:42 PM   #601
Ashasx
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Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
For matching an offersheet that wasn't even illegal at the time it was signed?

No way.
The Predators benefited from a cap stand point by having Weber cost significantly less against the cap than what he was actually being paid. This is an advantage that the NHL created a cap penalty for.

Why would the NHL introduce a rule like this not to follow through? Is this situation only different because it was an offer sheet situation?

Did Nashville somehow benefit less because of that? Absolutely not.

Last edited by Ashasx; 10-25-2016 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:14 PM   #602
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The league also decided did they not, that teams that signed these ridiculously long contracts just so they could get lower AAV's, were in fact circumventing the intent of the CBA? These teams knew full well that the likelihood of these players playing out their contracts in those $1m year's were very slim.

All who signed them deserve punishment. Predators included. The offersheet rules are part of the business.

Last edited by Insufficient Funds; 10-26-2016 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:26 PM   #603
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I think if Weber is done at that point the Predators will just trade to get him back and pay him his million a year to sit in the press box.
That would still be almost eight million dollars against their cap. That may or may not be difficult for them to accommodate.
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:31 PM   #604
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The league didn't think things through enough when they went to the salary cap. The door was left open and teams took advantage. I feel nobody should be penalized and let those contracts ride now that they have it figured out.
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:49 PM   #605
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The league didn't think things through enough when they went to the salary cap. The door was left open and teams took advantage. I feel nobody should be penalized and let those contracts ride now that they have it figured out.
Why though? You're kind of contradicting a bit, imo.

You're saying the league left themselves open to these kinds of contracts and the teams burned them. But the teams knew they were leaving themselves open to being burned by the contracts if they signed them. They did this to take advantage of the present and try to win now.

Why are you criticizing the league for leaving themselves open and yet stating the league should take away penalties to those teams?
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:51 PM   #606
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These teams offered these ridiculous contracts to win cups, and Chicago, for example won multiple. Why the hell would anyone want them to get off the hook now and be able to become Stanley Cup favorites again once the league helps them out?

As a Flames fan I can't believe anyone cheering for this team would want that!!
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:54 PM   #607
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Why though? You're kind of contradicting a bit, imo.

You're saying the league left themselves open to these kinds of contracts and the teams burned them. But the teams knew they were leaving themselves open to being burned by the contracts if they signed them. They did this to take advantage of the present and try to win now.

Why are you criticizing the league for leaving themselves open and yet stating the league should take away penalties to those teams?
Not that I am on one side or the other, but I believe their argument is that at the time of the team's actions, there was no penalty, therefore they weren't reasonably leaving themselves open to be 'burned' at that time.

Furthermore, the league approves every single contract. The team certainly shouldn't have needed to anticipate retrograde penalties from an organization on a contract that same organization previously approved.
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Old 10-27-2016, 12:07 AM   #608
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What I don't get is when the rules were announced it literally took me and my buddies 16 minutes to ask "why not just throw 5 years at league min at the end of the contracts?"

How the NHL missed this is beyond me .

However I don't see how teams can/should be punished for following the rules that were in place

Plus look at Jagr. Who is to say Webber and Hossa won't play to that age
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Old 10-27-2016, 12:23 AM   #609
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Originally Posted by Ashasx View Post
The Predators benefited from a cap stand point by having Weber cost significantly less against the cap than what he was actually being paid. This is an advantage that the NHL created a cap penalty for.

Why would the NHL introduce a rule like this not to follow through? Is this situation only different because it was an offer sheet situation?

Did Nashville somehow benefit less because of that? Absolutely not.
Nashville didn't benefit, however. They are a budget team, and didn't (and still don't) have the cash to overpay players like this. It is one thing if they were a cap team that was hiding that contract. They aren't the Leafs or Rangers that have a tonne of cash to burn through. They didn't reap any rewards with that contract.

So, they didn't HAVE to match? Think of it this way - remember the Flames in the 90's? I looked at them as a glorified farm team for the NHL. You knew as soon as a player was really good, and their contract was up, that they were going to be leaving for greener pastures. Fan support was dwindling. Flames had to make a drive to save their team.

Imagine after the '04 run, if Iginla's contract was up and he signed an offer-sheet and Calgary took the picks. Not only would a lot of that goodwill that was built-up with the fanbase been erased, but the team itself would have probably imploded somewhat.

Nashville has worked really, really hard at building itself up to be a hockey market. They could have very easily become the next Phoenix, Atlanta, etc.. They just lost Suter. They simply had no choice. They took their time and thought long and hard about it, but they had no choice other than to match.

If anything, Philly should be penalized for being a predatory team trying to take advantage of a small market, but growing franchise. Those four first round picks would have done nothing to sell tickets and grow their brand - not for years at least, and even then only if they ended up working out.

Preds had no choice in the matter if they wanted to be competitive, and when taken with their financial situation, it was a team that totally couldn't allow all the good work they have been doing to come unraveled overnight. What would happen next time when they had another star player up for a new contract? Philly, as well as New York, Toronto, Buffalo (with their rich and committed owner) and any other team would know they could swoop-in and grab that star player. Worst of all, the Nashville fans would know it.

Sometimes things need to be put into context. I don't see them as having benefited from Weber's contract, but they benefited enormously from not losing Weber. This is one of the rare instances that I can see justice being served by not enforcing the recapture penalty - I think Nashville was hurt enough.
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Old 10-27-2016, 12:31 AM   #610
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Oh I guarantee there is zero chance Nash ever pays a recapture penalty !
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Old 10-27-2016, 01:51 AM   #611
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Imagine after the '04 run, if Iginla's contract was up and he signed an offer-sheet and Calgary took the picks. Not only would a lot of that goodwill that was built-up with the fanbase been erased, but the team itself would have probably imploded somewhat.
You don't think Alex Bourret, Bobby Sanguinetti, Alexei Cherpanov, and Michael Del Zotto would have been worth 2004 Iginla?
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Old 10-27-2016, 03:09 AM   #612
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What I don't get is when the rules were announced it literally took me and my buddies 16 minutes to ask "why not just throw 5 years at league min at the end of the contracts?"

How the NHL missed this is beyond me .

However I don't see how teams can/should be punished for following the rules that were in place

Plus look at Jagr. Who is to say Webber and Hossa won't play to that age
I thought the dollar for a subsequent year isn't allowed to exceed a certain percentage Lower than the prior one?
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Old 10-27-2016, 03:15 AM   #613
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I thought the dollar for a subsequent year isn't allowed to exceed a certain percentage Lower than the prior one?
That was introduced at the same time as recapture penalties, IIRC. It wasn't part of the 2005 CBA.
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:23 AM   #614
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That would still be almost eight million dollars against their cap. That may or may not be difficult for them to accommodate.
They are $4 million under the cap this year so I think in 8-9 years, $8 million would be fairly easy to stomach.

Especially compared to a $24 million cap hit.
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Old 10-27-2016, 03:17 PM   #615
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I think a nice compromise would be to look back and see if the team gaining the "advantage" were actually up against the cap for the years in question.

Unlike say, Chicago, who were up against the cap in the years the Keith and Hossa contracts were (are) operative, I doubt the Preds actually gained any advantage from the contract being structured in such a way.
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