[News] Flames scratch Sven...again

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by strombad

He doesn't have to be Gallagher, you realise that right? He just needs to emulate his play a bit and add some of those elements he is missing.

I don't understand, you don't want Sven to change, or improve, or learn, or anything really. You just want to send him out, give him an automatic 15 minutes per game and let him play "his" game, which his terribly underdeveloped and no where near rounded enough for him to stick in the NHL long term. You're wishing failure on him because you're impatient.

That player you covet so deeply would be ruined if everything went the way you wanted it to. He's not Patrick Kane, he's never going to be, but if we can get a Hossa out of him? We're laughin'

But I disagree with you. You and your supporters keep saying that his game is "terribly underdeveloped" (lol) when I just don't see that. He's played just fine in all 3 zones. He's creating chances. He's not going to be stellar and stand out every game, but when he doesn't have a great game, apparently he's "terribly underdeveloped" in your eyes. You probably couldn't even name a particular situation to defend your claim.

Is Glencross terribly underdeveloped when turns the puck over by trying to make a cross ice pass through 2 Detroit players? Is Galiardi terribly underdeveloped when he chooses not to make a pass to Reinhart which would have resulted in an easy tap-in?

Baertschi's mistakes are amplified by yourself and the coaching staff for whatever reason. So much so that he's now "terribly underdeveloped".

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by edslunch

0 for 28 on the power play and one of their most skilled offensive players barely gets a sniff and is a frequent scratch. What's wrong with this picture?

PP TOI:

Jones: 37:32 0 pts
Colborne: 23:10 0 pts

[troutman]

Originally Posted by New Era

I think the Flames need to crap or get off the pot with this kid.

Why? It is November 8th. He just turned 21. Patience.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

But I disagree with you. You and your supporters keep saying that his game is "terribly underdeveloped" (lol) when I just don't see that. He's played just fine in all 3 zones. He's creating chances. He's not going to be stellar and stand out every game, but when he doesn't have a great game, apparently he's "terribly underdeveloped" in your eyes. You probably couldn't even name a particular situation to defend your claim.

Is Glencross terribly underdeveloped when turns the puck over by trying to make a cross ice pass through 2 Detroit players? Is Galiardi terribly underdeveloped when he chooses not to make a pass to Reinhart which would have resulted in an easy tap-in?

Baertschi's mistakes are amplified by yourself and the coaching staff for whatever reason. So much so that noe he's now "terribly underdeveloped".

Oh, so you're right, but the coaching staff and anyone else who agrees with them is wrong? Sure, sounds realistic.

Thing is, I love Baertschi. The guy has huge levels of potential. He's shown in junior that he can be a dynamic and entertaining forward. He has raw talent, and at times, the guy can be absolutely electric. The problem here is that he HASN'T been. I've said all along, if he was out there producing consistently then sure, he can play whatever game is letting him produce, but he's not. And don't give me some garbage about him not having great linemates all the time. The FEW times he has been saddled with plugs, were he ready to really produce in the NHL, he would have made them better, not let them make him worse.

Look at Crosby, greatest player in the game and bad example, but he plays with a couple 3rd liners and turns then into 1st liners. He produces despite the players around him, not because of them.

Seriously, what magic have you seen from Sven to suggest he's ready to be fed to the wolves? He isn't producing, he gets knocked off the puck, his work ethic drops depending on the time of the game or the zone he's in.

Yeah, great, use Glencross and Galiardi as weird examples of something you thought I meant. If you think they are comparable to Sven, then you really are setting him up for failure. Sven has the potential to be twice the player either of those guys are, and if he's not playing like that? Then there is more teaching to do.

I just don't understand why you're so pleased with mediocrity from a player that is capable of greatness. More teaching to do, he's underdeveloped.

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

PP TOI:

Jones: 37:32 0 pts
Colborne: 23:10 0 pts

In this case, I would call out Gelinas (the PP coach IIRC) and Hartley (because ultimately he is responsible) for icetime mismanagement.

[CliffFletcher]

Most players who were big scorers in junior didn't learn how to use their speed and skill when playing without the puck. They didn't have to. But this is the NHL. You're not going to have the puck on your stick all the time.

The train wreck in Edmonton shows what happens when you let skilled young players just 'play their game.' Playing both sides of the puck with the same intensity does not detract from your offensive game. Playing well without the puck requires strong skating and skills as well, which is why the best defensive forwards in the game are all highly skilled players. Baertschi's skills aren't going to erode because he's asked to play hard without the puck.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Most players who were big scorers in junior didn't learn how to use their speed and skill when playing without the puck. They didn't have to. But this is the NHL. You're not going to have the puck on your stick all the time.

The train wreck in Edmonton shows what happens when you let skilled young players just 'play their game.' Playing both sides of the puck with the same intensity does not detract from your offensive game. Playing well without the puck requires strong skating and skills as well, which is why the best defensive forwards in the game are all highly skilled players. Baertschi's skills aren't going to erode because he's asked to play hard without the puck.

That's fine but how do you explain Jackman taking his spot with Hudler and Monahan? What happened to trying to ice the best possible team? Sven had his ups and downs early in the season but he had chemistry with them and Hudler started off on a great points streak while Monahan also got off to a great start. Since Hartley started to fiddle with the line and remove Sven and bench him both Hudler and Monahan's play have dropped off. I get that Hartley is trying to send Sven a message but the best thing for the team was when that line was playing together and Bob seems to have put his personal battle with Sven ahead of what's best for the team.

[Jordan!]

As an outsider, you guys are heavily over-rating this kid. Much like Backlund. They are both going to be pretty average players in this league.

Monahan has been very impressive, he definitely has that X factor that I'm not seeing in Baertchi.

You guys need to lower your expectations, he's not that good of an NHLer, right now..

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Most players who were big scorers in junior didn't learn how to use their speed and skill when playing without the puck. They didn't have to. But this is the NHL. You're not going to have the puck on your stick all the time.

The train wreck in Edmonton shows what happens when you let skilled young players just 'play their game.' Playing both sides of the puck with the same intensity does not detract from your offensive game. Playing well without the puck requires strong skating and skills as well, which is why the best defensive forwards in the game are all highly skilled players. Baertschi's skills aren't going to erode because he's asked to play hard without the puck.

Exactly. It's not like asking him to add grit to his game removes skill. If it really does end up that Baertchi can't chew gum and walk at the same time like many other players in the league, then that is too bad and sets a limitation on him as a potential 1st liner. If that ends up being the case, then so be it (not every player can be a 1st line player), but he is only 21 and we should be trying to get him there.

Let's face it, Baertschi is not a Jagr or Selanne type of player. If he is going to be a 1st line player, especially a left wing, he will need to add more tools to his tool box.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's fine but how do you explain Jackman taking his spot with Hudler and Monahan? .

It's a completely different issue. Baertschi isn't being scratched so that Jackman can play on that line. It might be the result of Baertschi being scratched, but that is an issue of our current depth and injury situation.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's fine but how do you explain Jackman taking his spot with Hudler and Monahan?

Jackman is bigger and plays the body. It's an experiment. This isn't game 5 of the Stanley Cup semi-finals. It's game 16 of a rebuilding season. This is the time to experiment with matchups and linemates.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What happened to trying to ice the best possible team? Sven had his ups and downs early in the season but he had chemistry with them and Hudler started off on a great points streak while Monahan also got off to a great start. Since Hartley started to fiddle with the line and remove Sven and bench him both Hudler and Monahan's play have dropped off.

I'd say that's coincidence. There's no way Monahan and Hudler were going to stay that hot. And regardless, long-term player development matters more at this point with the Flames than keeping hot streaks going.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I get that Hartley is trying to send Sven a message but the best thing for the team was when that line was playing together and Bob seems to have put his personal battle with Sven ahead of what's best for the team.

Do you really think this is a personal thing with Hartley? That the rest of the Flames braintrust doesn't have some say in this? I'm pretty confident that Feaster and Burke would step in if they thought Hartley was ruining one of the team's top prospects out of some personal feud.

[renny]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's fine but how do you explain Jackman taking his spot with Hudler and Monahan?

Jackman didn't take Baertschi's spot, it just happened that because Baertschi was benched that Jackman was moved to that spot. Jackman didn't cause Baertschi to be removed from the lineup.

[Rerun]

Looks to me like the Flames are trying to turn a silk purse into a sow's ear... and they won't be happy till he starts playing like one... in all three zones. And then they'll complain that he isn't scoring enough.

Kristian Huselius II?

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Looks to me like the Flames are trying to turn a silk purse into a sow's ear... and they won't be happy till he starts playing like one... in all three zones. And then they'll complain that he isn't scoring enough.

Kristian Huselius II?

Except the fact he isn't scoring goals is the problem, not the rest of his game. When you are supposed to be an offensive dynamo and you are taking only 1 shot per game you aren't doing your job right.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

As an outsider, you guys are heavily over-rating this kid. Much like Backlund. They are both going to be pretty average players in this league.

Monahan has been very impressive, he definitely has that X factor that I'm not seeing in Baertchi.

You guys need to lower your expectations, he's not that good of an NHLer, right now..

I am guessing you've only seen his play this year.

Baertschi is a highly talented prospect.

A large part of the debate centres around the fact that Hartley has him focused on defense and is playing him minimal minutes.

In other words, the situation that he is in this year is having a strong effect on his offensive creativity.

Whether that is his fault entirely, or partially Hartley's, is the crux of the debate.

But his talent level, despite the body of work this season, is there.

[Fire]

The way some fans go in panic attack mode like teenage girls whenever a young player is scratched makes me shake my head. We see examples of good young players scratched/sent down plenty of times. For example: Kreider, Tasarenko, Lindholm, Nichushkin, Reilly, Dumba, Pageau, Zibanjed, and so on. I guess those coaches are mental defectives as well.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I am guessing you've only seen his play this year.

Baertschi is a highly talented prospect.

A large part of the debate centres around the fact that Hartley has him focused on defense and is playing him minimal minutes.

In other words, the situation that he is in this year is having a strong effect on his offensive creativity.

Whether that is his fault entirely, or partially Hartley's, is the crux of the debate.

But his talent level, despite the body of work this season, is there.

Not sure I agree about the limited minutes part, he's averaging 13 mins only 2 less than Monahan. He should be getting more pp minutes though.

Sven needs to be more assertive, shoot the puck and skate with some authority. Try attacking the net instead of always looking for a pass.

[Dion]

Of course, it rattles me. It pi**es me off, to be honest with you,” said Baertschi who was speaking with the media for the first time since he’d been scratched Tuesday in Minnesota. “You want to be out there, you want to help the team. If you’re not out there, you just sit around and it sucks.”

“That’s the worst part about it. You just can’t do anything. In Minnesota, we lose 5-1 and you’re just watching the game. That’s the worst part. You just want to be out there and try to help the team but you can’t.”

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...336/story.html

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

As an outsider, you guys are heavily over-rating this kid. Much like Backlund. They are both going to be pretty average players in this league.

Monahan has been very impressive, he definitely has that X factor that I'm not seeing in Baertchi.

You guys need to lower your expectations, he's not that good of an NHLer, right now..

What? Baertschi and Backlund aren't even comparable, though this is the kind of post I expect from you.

You aren't an outsider. You're a bitter former Flames fan.

[saillias]

What's the story with Bouw N Arrow anyway? This whole forum goes ballistic every time he makes a post.