Would you support Rainbow on Hockey Unis for Sochi?

[photon]

Originally Posted by SebC

Undoubtedly, the death penalty for homosexually is a far greater violation of human rights than the ruian law is, but russian law is perceived as much easier to influence, and thus an appropriate path forward in what is ultimately a global campaign. It's a matter of picking the winnable battles as a way to keep making progress.

The "why this not that" line of reasoning even has a name, fallacy of relative privation.

The whole law seems to be an example of think of the children, which in the absence of any actual reason for the law (none have been provided) is just a convenient way to justify something many people of Russia want based on emotion not reason.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I realize that this is the topic of this discussion. But you can have thousands of discussions and you can basically have only one patch on your Olympic uniform. The topic is, precisely, "Would you support Rainbow on Hockey Unis for Sochi", so the question of why this and not some other issue should be raised to this point, is legit.

Could you please stop saying things like "Use your head"? It's fun off-season debate, steam out. You are not saving the world from appartheid here.

Ok, but that is not the topic question in bold, the OP actually posed the question, "would you support Rainbow on Hockey Unis for Sochi?".
Why make it more complicated than that? Other issues are important but this one just happens to be the topic of this thread.

You sound a little bit like my wife, we would be having an argument about something specific and she will bring in 10 other semi non-related issues. Sometimes it's best to just stick to the topic at hand and just save the rest for another discussion.

[strombad]

But guys, I just really think this is THE thread for us to talk about our favourite kinds of cake.

I mean, why not?

[Bill Bumface]

I just thought I'd add to the conversation that one branch of my family tree is Russian. Every single member of the family on that side of the family, born in Canada or not, are among the most bigoted people I know. I see them maybe once a year and there is no chance I make it through a visit without hearing something involving "the Jews", "Blacks" or "Gays". Usually at that point is where I walk out of the room and let the less easily offended members of my family listen to their hate speech while I do something more productive.

It is something deeply ingrained in the culture there, and it's going to take a lot of work and a lot of time to fix.

[Spinoff90]

First of all it wouldn't be allowed so it is a pointless debate really and some people need to not get so heated about it. Second the reality is if it were allowed it would do more harm than good. The more public outcry this gets the more anger it is creating in Russia leading to more hate against the gay community. This has already been the case and no matter how good the intentions would further be the case with something like this.

Plus at the end of the day it is not an Olympic issue. I know there are people that view it is more than just a sporting event with the world stage it has but at the end of the day that is what it is. So when it comes down to what it is the reality is they have not banned gay athletes or anything like that. It should not be used for political agendas. That just takes focus away from athletes that have devoted years of their lives to this one moment. It should be a celebration of sport and nothing more.

Also the last time I checked same sex relationships were not illegal in Russia either which you would think was the case with how people have reacted. So it isn't like they have gone that far to be acting like it is a total war against homosexuality. A ban on propaganda really isn't that bad because the reality is multiple forms of propaganda should be banned. Is it equal what they are allowing and what they are not? Nope. Is it vague to the point it will likely be abused by those with the power to do so? Sure. But last time I checked North America isn't exactly equal either now is it? And I don't see calls for rainbows on NHL jerseys or calls to boycott the NHL. We are still at a point in North America ourselves where an athlete coming out in a lot of sports would be career suicide. So people are not treating it as an equal issue themselves while calling for these Olympic boycotts and stuff yet ignoring the problem in their own backyard. But reality is there is no equal ground and never will be. It is a foolish pipe dream and like it or not but to be equal is also to not be equal.

Plus at the end of the day what Russia does is their business. It is not our place or our governments place to tell them otherwise. There is enough problems in the world because of that already.

So in summary no I would not support it.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Spinoff90

First of all it wouldn't be allowed so it is a pointless debate really and some people need to not get so heated about it. Second the reality is if it were allowed it would do more harm than good. The more public outcry this gets the more anger it is creating in Russia leading to more hate against the gay community. This has already been the case and no matter how good the intentions would further be the case with something like this.

Plus at the end of the day it is not an Olympic issue. I know there are people that view it is more than just a sporting event with the world stage it has but at the end of the day that is what it is. So when it comes down to what it is the reality is they have not banned gay athletes or anything like that. It should not be used for political agendas. That just takes focus away from athletes that have devoted years of their lives to this one moment. It should be a celebration of sport and nothing more.

Also the last time I checked same sex relationships were not illegal in Russia either which you would think was the case with how people have reacted. So it isn't like they have gone that far to be acting like it is a total war against homosexuality. A ban on propaganda really isn't that bad because the reality is multiple forms of propaganda should be banned. Is it equal what they are allowing and what they are not? Nope. Is it vague to the point it will likely be abused by those with the power to do so? Sure. But last time I checked North America isn't exactly equal either now is it? And I don't see calls for rainbows on NHL jerseys or calls to boycott the NHL. We are still at a point in North America ourselves where an athlete coming out in a lot of sports would be career suicide. So people are not treating it as an equal issue themselves while calling for these Olympic boycotts and stuff yet ignoring the problem in their own backyard. But reality is there is no equal ground and never will be. It is a foolish pipe dream and like it or not but to be equal is also to not be equal.

Plus at the end of the day what Russia does is their business. It is not our place or our governments place to tell them otherwise. There is enough problems in the world because of that already.

So in summary no I would not support it.

Yeah, but the last time I checked at the end of the day the reality was that when it comes down to it your post doesn't really say much.

[SebC]

A rainbow patch on Canada's jerseys would show support to gay athletes in Canada too, maybe even a gay NHLer if there is one.

[Spinoff90]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Yeah, but the last time I checked at the end of the day the reality was that when it comes down to it your post doesn't really say much.

Well good thing you were here to say a lot then huh?

Originally Posted by SebC

A rainbow patch on Canada's jerseys would show support to gay athletes in Canada too, maybe even a gay NHLer if there is one.

If the Russian propganda ban didn't happen there wouldn't be this outcry. If it wouldn't have happened with business as usual in the NHL it in no way shows support to that cause. It simply shows opposition to the Russian law. And those gay NHL players which there are bound to be who are scared to come out wouldn't be any further ahead when the Olympics were over with. They would still be in the closet knowing it would not be good for their career to do otherwise.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Spinoff90

Well good thing you were here to say a lot then huh?



If the Russian propganda ban didn't happen there wouldn't be this outcry. If it wouldn't have happened with business as usual in the NHL it in no way shows support to that cause. It simply shows opposition to the Russian law. And those gay NHL players which there are bound to be who are scared to come out wouldn't be any further ahead when the Olympics were over with. They would still be in the closet knowing it would not be good for their career to do otherwise.

You seem to know a lot about the future and of different realities where different things happened/did not happen.

Pics of your time machine please.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Spinoff90

If the Russian propganda ban didn't happen there wouldn't be this outcry. If it wouldn't have happened with business as usual in the NHL it in no way shows support to that cause. It simply shows opposition to the Russian law. And those gay NHL players which there are bound to be who are scared to come out wouldn't be any further ahead when the Olympics were over with. They would still be in the closet knowing it would not be good for their career to do otherwise.

If we let Russia do this and shrug it off (under the guise of cultural relativism, perhaps), that would a negative message to possible gays NHLers (and it's far from guaranteed that there is one, unless you have info that I don't). Standing up to Russia is a supportive message. Which is the better country to be gay in, the one that calls out Russia's law or the one that doesn't? Opposing Russia's law advances gay rights everywhere, including here.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by SebC

A rainbow patch on Canada's jerseys would show support to gay athletes in Canada too, maybe even a gay NHLer if there is one.

If we use the United States average percentage of gay population then there are about 24 gay NHLers.

Enough to make a whole team.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Spinoff90

If the Russian propganda ban didn't happen there wouldn't be this outcry.

...and your point would be?

[trublmaker]

The only reason I wouldn't want to see any patch on any olympic uniform is because it would open the door for every political cause out there wanting a patch of recognition. If the olympics were to start being used as a political platform then that would be the end of the games unfortunately. In that regard China should never have had the games and anybody can make a case for any host country not hosting. Russia seems to be regressing back to their old dark days and needs to pull their heads out of their butts.

[Devils'Advocate]

Are you against the NHL players from wearing pink uniforms for breast cancer awareness/fundraising on grounds that it opens the door to other causes wanting the same kind of special treatment?

And the issue of China has come up about thirteen billion times in this thread and has been addressed each of those times. I realize this is now a novel-length thread so people don't want to read the whole thing. But you can search the thread for China to see where it has been covered.

[scotty2hotty]

Russians are the Klingons of industrialized nations.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Are you against the NHL players from wearing pink uniforms for breast cancer awareness/fundraising on grounds that it opens the door to other causes wanting the same kind of special treatment?

And the issue of China has come up about thirteen billion times in this thread and has been addressed each of those times. I realize this is now a novel-length thread so people don't want to read the whole thing. But you can search the thread for China to see where it has been covered.

This isn't about pink uniforms for cancer this is about the Olympics . I don't care if china came up fourteen billion times , I made a comment you don't have to agree or like it . I think politics has no place in the Olympics there are other forums

[valo403]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Can we have an Olympics that isn't monopolized by human rights issues?

It boggles my mind that North American's think we are so perfect that we should be using every platform to tell some other country they are doing it wrong. The commercialization and resource monopolization by the "civilized" world has significantly more impact globally then the Russian stance on homosexual rights.

Let the athletes have their moment. It is frigging pathetic that there is a 26 page post on this and nothing on the various Canadian athletes that will be participating at the Olympic's. Talk about a messed up perspective.

Yeah, how messed up that we value human rights and equality over sports. Do you have any idea how pathetic you sound?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Pointman

So, your agenda is to basically keep pointing out that Russian is a country of backwards scum until this law will be revoked? This law is two monthes old, was Russia a progressive country of well-smelling people before this law? If not, what exactly will you achieve by revoking the law? Will you stop doing it after Olympics? If you will, it is pointless. If not, there is no logical reasoning for why you are going after Russia instead of muslim anti-gay countries (not to mention a lot of other world issues).

Sort of, mostly I'd just like the world to know that Russia, and apparently most Russians, are scum. I already knew that, but this has really reinforced it. Russia has made an amazing decline from one of the worlds greatest cultures to a pathetic nation.

[CaptainCrunch]

So do we also put a ##### cat on the uniform. And a Syrian flag with an X through it.

When you open the door on something like that how do you make one more important then the next.

the anti-gay laws are huge. But so is Putin going against his constitution to stay in power. The jailing of that rock band, and their support of Syria.

Soon we would have uniforms with about 40 patches on them.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

This isn't about pink uniforms for cancer this is about the Olympics . I don't care if china came up fourteen billion times , I made a comment you don't have to agree or like it . I think politics has no place in the Olympics there are other forums

But seriously, try and add something that hasn't been looped over and rehashed 6 or 7 times. What's the point in posting something that's been said and discussed repeatedly?

Either way, politics is ENTIRELY linked with the Olympics. You may not "think" it has a place, but the history of the Olympics proves you wrong:
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/polit...892902,00.html