Kipper won't agree to be traded

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think it is fairly clear what he is saying is I will retire if you trade me.

Which is really nice of him to do. Handcuffs the team that resurected his NHL career and paid him boat loads of cash from getting any value from him if they wanted to trade him, and it provides him the benefit of not having to be the villan.

Doing what he's done, rather than actually wait to be traded and they say that he's not up for it and will retire and decide at that time when the options presented to him, allows him to look like a great guy, the quiet vet who's given his all to a team and just wants to stay there. Versus if the Flames traded him and he decided, thanks but no thanks I'd rather not go, when he'd become the villan, the primadona athlete millionair that wasn't willing to honor his contract, accept the realities of NHL life and report to his new team. Now he doesn't have to "Nabokov" and feel the venom, even though he's essentially doing the same thing, just screwing the team on the other side of the equation.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Frankster

I have stated multiple times that it is purely optics. If he doesn't want to be traded for family reasons because there were major complications with his last child, then request a leave of absence or retire now. That would not leave some of us feeling like he is being a jerk.

Many folks here bagged on Sundin for refusing to be traded (under a NTC) because he wasn't being a team player. Now that it's one of our own, lots seem to be ok with it. I don't get this place sometimes

Fully agree with the bolded part. If this was any other team and player, posters would be bagging the player left, right and center.

[moon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

If it pissed the Flames off enough to not want to pay him anymore they could easily put him on waivers and then stop paying him once he refuses to report to a new team or Abbotsford. Right now he's still playing when asked, thus fulfilling his contractual obligation.

Again no argument from me that he is fulfilling his contractual obligations at this point.

If he had a NMC and they were asking him I would have no problem with it, if he worked construction where trades don't exist I would have no problem with it but he signed a deal where this wasn't only a possibility but a likelihood that this would occur and for him to act like this now s wrong.

And your are right it is only my view. Just gave shard time understanding why a very common and reasonable request by the Flames is somehow being looked at as wrong.

If this is how players are going to act I guess no need for NTC anymore.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And anyone who did is wrong on that level. A team has no vested interest in a player's future when they trade him, why is a player required to have a vested in his team's future?

With that statement, I am not debating the validity of the argument, I am expressing frustration at the Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde personality of this place!

One of the reasons I prefer to loiter in the Off Topic threads rather than the FOI threads. Perhaps it's time for me to wander back

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Which is really nice of him to do. Handcuffs the team that resurected his NHL career and paid him boat loads of cash from getting any value from him if they wanted to trade him, and it provides him the benefit of not having to be the villan.

They gave him boatloads of cash because he earned it with his play, and if they weren't going to pay him, someone else would've.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Frankster

With that statement, I am not debating the validity of the argument, I am expressing frustration at the Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde personality of this place!

One of the reasons I prefer to loiter in the Off Topic threads rather than the FOI threads. Perhaps it's time for me to wander back

Oh I agree. That was my point with my example earlier of him not wanting to report if we were a playoff team. People would probably be saying how awesome he is for being loyal to the city, etc. Sports fans tend to be a self-interested bunch but then cry foul when players are, too.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by rubecube

They gave him boatloads of cash because he earned it with his play, and if they weren't going to pay him, someone else would've.

Yup and if he wanted an NMC over these last 2 years, he should have earned that too, but evidently didn't or he'd have one. So rather than honor his commitments he's manipulated himself one at this point, after he's collected on 90% of the cash in his deal. Awesome.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by moon

And your are right it is only my view. Just gave shard time understanding why a very common and reasonable request by the Flames is somehow being looked at as wrong.

If this is how players are going to act I guess no need for NTC anymore.

I don't think the request by the Flames is unreasonable, but if Kipper feels it would seriously upset his life, then who are we to judge him? We have no clue what his personal life consists of.

And I don't think this is going to become a common occurrence. I could see it maybe happening the odd time with older players, but I don't think a lot of young guys are going to opt to leave boatloads of cash on the table because they don't want to move.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Oh I agree. That was my point with my example earlier of him not wanting to report if we were a playoff team. People would probably be saying how awesome he is for being loyal to the city, etc. Sports fans tend to be a self-interested bunch but then cry foul when players are, too.

If he is preventing this team from having the opportunity to better itself in the future, as they are allowed to do under the CBA, by refusing to report if traded, then I have a huge issue with it (not that my opinion as a fan matters to Kipper or the Flames). If there were a possibility of a trade, he has possibly dried up that market with these statements (if true).

We all lambaste players publicly demanding a trade (unless an Oiler or Canuck), I don't see this as being much different.

If the team were in a playoff position this wouldn't even be a topic of conversation

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Frankster

I have stated multiple times that it is purely optics. If he doesn't want to be traded for family reasons because there were major complications with his last child, then request a leave of absence or retire now. That would not leave some of us feeling like he is being a jerk.

Many folks here bagged on Sundin for refusing to be traded (under a NTC) because he wasn't being a team player. Now that it's one of our own, lots seem to be ok with it. I don't get this place sometimes

Which was wrong at the time as it is today....I never ever get on a player who is doing what he decides is best for him and his family, regardless of what a bunch of rabid fans think.

here is that thread from days of yore...


http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...ghlight=sundin

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Yup and if he wanted an NMC over these last 2 years, he should have earned that too, but evidently didn't or he'd have one. So rather than honor his commitments he's manipulated himself one at this point, after he's collected on 90% of the cash in his deal. Awesome.

Right, and he's willing to forego the remaining 10% to not honour the committments. I'm not seeing the problem. Again, if it's a problem for the Flames, they can pretty easily get out of paying him for the remainder of this year and next.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Fully agree with the bolded part. If this was any other team and player, posters would be bagging the player left, right and center.

Uhhh...no. Quit painting "posters" with the broad brush, its not only ignorant its flat out wrong.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Uhhh...no. Quit painting "posters" with the broad brush, its not only ignorant its flat out wrong.

Got to include a limiting term such as 'some' or 'many'!

[moon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't think the request by the Flames is unreasonable, but if Kipper feels it would seriously upset his life, then who are we to judge him? We have no clue what his personal life consists of.

We are fans in a message board judging players is what we do.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Frankster

If he is preventing this team from having the opportunity to better itself in the future, as they are allowed to do under the CBA, by refusing to report if traded, then I have a huge issue with it (not that my opinion as a fan matters to Kipper or the Flames)

But again, how does this concern Kipper? The team isn't acting in his interests by trading him, why should he agree to act in theirs?

We all lambaste players publicly demanding a trade (unless an Oiler or Canuck), I don't see this as being much different.

I have no problem with players privately asking for a trade. Publically demanding one is different.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by moon

We are fans in a message board judging players is what we do.

Sure...when it comes to contributions on the ice...but when it comes to personal reasons off the ice...it should never ever be broached. Its, quite simply, nobody elses business.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Brannigans Law

Your arguments are so flawed I have a migraine. NHL and pro atheletes play in a business where movement across north america is expected and part of their compensation. They live a nomadic lifestyle and are paid to be the best atheletes in their roles, and these roles are only available in certain cities. And transfers between teams and cities is commonplace and expected. Trying to shoe-horn that into an office enviroment for comparison sake is wrong.

It is unfortunate that you prefaced this with 'your arguments are so flawed"...

The bolded is correct. And if you don't want to participate in that arrangement any more, you can retire, thereby foregoing your compensation.

Very straight-forward, and very common. Happens all the time - it is a CLM which is understood, but it happens.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by moon

We are fans in a message board judging players is what we do.

I guess. My opinion is to generally keep it to on ice stuff and avoid speculating about personal issues. That really should be between the player and his family. Obviously stuff that gets out into the public (i.e. arrests, cheating, etc.) is fair game.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Right, and he's willing to forego the remaining 10% to not honour the committments. I'm not seeing the problem. Again, if it's a problem for the Flames, they can pretty easily get out of paying him for the remainder of this year and next.

But only if we don't trade him, which we are allowed to do. Cake and eat it too, and that's the problem. He's cherry picking scenario's on whether he'd like to honor his contract or not, rather than fully honor it based on the deal he signed.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

delete double