[News] Friedman: Feaster/Flames are not going to blow it up

[Poe969]

well we all have our opinions... I'd love to see most everyone on this team traded away for prospects, picks and players between 20-25. Either way, it's going to be fun to be a Flames fan to watch hockey (we suck but watching hockey is still watcing hockey) and trade deadline will be fun to see if Feaster and co do what some of us think they should do or do what others think they should do.

At least this year, we kind of know where we sit and we don't have to get our hopes up for the playoffs.

[Vulcan]

I don't know if we should trade Iginla or not but we won't need him to sell seats in a new arena. A new arena will sell tickets for a few years on just the novelty of it. A perfect time for a rebuild but can we wait that long. I don't think we can but a new arena will give management some time to get to a successful team.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Iginla is not the answer, that is painfully clear and frankly his philosophy IS the philosophy of this team. Management has made a concerted effort to surround him with players he enjoys playing with and the results have been lacklustre.

We have no idea what return Jarome would fetch in a trade so your late 1st assumption is pointless.

Enough of "could". Trading Iginla WOULD change the philosophy of this team and frankly I think that would be a good thing.

But we have a pretty good idea. Nash trade minus at least 30% less return is fair to assume.(being generous)


I tend to agree with Dino one player getting a late first and a prospect isn't the make or break in the rebuild.


If we could get a player like Doan for his contract would we be happy? Never mind the fact this guy is the face of the franchise.


I really don't buy all this "we need to tear every thing down completely to do an full rebound" "it's just a change in mindset BS"


The time to trade Jarome was years ago. What we get now is just not worth him leaving


If three other players deserve to be on the top line then step up and take it young man until then Jarome can be there.


I think the return we get for him is a joke. I'm more than happy with getting rid of almost everyone else 100%

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Poe969

well we all have our opinions... I'd love to see most everyone on this team traded away for prospects, picks and players between 20-25. Either way, it's going to be fun to be a Flames fan to watch hockey (we suck but watching hockey is still watcing hockey) and trade deadline will be fun to see if Feaster and co do what some of us think they should do or do what others think they should do.

At least this year, we kind of know where we sit and we don't have to get our hopes up for the playoffs.

Last trade deadline I was optimistic the team would do the right thing and start making changes. This year I'm less optimistic and grimacing at the thought of Feaster and co. steering the future of this team at a crucial point.

[Vinny01]

This team has been overhauled since we last made playoffs. We traded the player who was supposed to be the next captain unfortunately it was a horrible trade. We traded another main stay 800 game flame in Regehr.

The main problem is this team has continued to build around Iginla and Kipper the same players this team has been built around for 9 years. This is the problem this is why the media says this team needs a rebuild. At this stage Iggy should be the 2nd or 3rd best player on his line not the focal point of the offense.

The unfortunate fact is the time to trade Iggy should have come the year after we first melted down. The offer was likely Schenn, Simmonds + and Iggy was 33 with 2.5 years left on his deal. A major win-win but now we will be lucky to get a decent prospect and late first but we need to take that deal. The flames need to turn the page. The fan base has grown increasingly fragile and restless and I think we are at the tipping point. We need to move in a new direction this has become so painful to watch.

Now that Feaster has built his team we have the worst collection of centres in the game, are small, soft and still relying on Iggy and Kipper to carry the load we will be lucky to finish any higher than 13th in the west but heading for 15th

Major changes are required with nothing but the future in mind. Feaster failed to build a winner there is no one that can turn this team around this year. Unlikely someone can turn this team around next year unless the necessary changes can be made and the Flames acquire assets for their vets and get a top 5 pick come June

[Poe969]

Well then it'll be at least entertaining on here. Think of the uproar if Iggy is traded.... then think of the uproar if he isn't! Last year Feaster and co. made a push for the playoffs with the team they had. This year I think they realize playoffs aren't an option so they'll either stay as is or deal for picks. Either way, going to be entertaining and thats why we follow the Flames, the entertainment!

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Yoho

But we have a pretty good idea. Nash trade minus at least 30% less return is fair to assume.(being generous)


I tend to agree with Dino one player getting a late first and a prospect isn't the make or break in the rebuild.


If we could get a player like Doan for his contract would we be happy? Never mind the fact this guy is the face of the franchise.


I really don't buy all this "we need to tear every thing down completely to do an full rebound" "it's just a change in mindset BS"


The time to trade Jarome was years ago. What we get now is just not worth him walking out unsigned


If three other players deserve to be on the top line then step up and take it young man until then Jarome can be there.


I think the return we get for him is a joke. I'm more than happy with getting rid of almost everyone else 100%

No you don't need to burn it to the ground and have a fire sale. However you need to manage your assists effectively and frankly I disagree with you that Iginla would not fetch a meaningful return. There is no guarantee that he will re-sign with the Calgary Flames. Are you prepared to have him walk for nothing?

[nik-]

Sorry, when one player has been the focus of the organizational mindset, nothing is going to change until that player is gone.

This will be the path, until he retires, leaves as a UFA, or is traded.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by dammage79

It changes the dynamic of this team for better or for worse. And something that is more likely needed than anything else.

I am personally not on either side of the fence when it comes to trading Iginla but what I do know is that everything about the Flames in the last three to five years has become stale and stagnant. They've gone through coaches, Gm's and plenty of different player combinations and even tried regurgitating past success in Tanguay and Cammy and Conroy.

What rewards has that brought the organization on the ice? A winning product? Not really as we are heading into our worst finish in the standings since Iginla came to CGY and out of the playoffs for the fourth consecutive year. Everything about the on ice product has been built around Iggy with not a lot of success.

So the argument I guess is that changing Iginla leads to a difference in fundamental philosophy within the organization. And it wouldn't matter what the return is as long as the team has a chance to move on and build success around the team as a whole or around another potential Franchise player.

Let's assume all that is, in fact, an accurate speculation. Then we may be able to add one more - and perhaps more determinative piece of speculation: trading Iggy will likely cost the owners money.

The owners have shown that - so far - they are willing to be a cap team (or at least close enough). If we lose Iggy, no matter whom we get back, he or they will probably NOT be the face of the franchise going forward. At least not in the same way that Iggy has been. That, in and of itself, will cost the owners money.

Why? Not because of you and me and many of the other CPers -- we are (OK - I'm assuming again here) - knowledgeable about the Flames, hockey, the business issues of the NHL etc. and willing to see changes made. But the casual fan is not. They are the ones buying sweaters, consuming advertising etc etc. All of that puts money in the owners' pockets that they then spend on cap.

Sooner or later he has to go and the owners have to face that reality. Whether they are ready to do so as yet is anyone's guess.

[dino7c]

I'm not even saying don't trade Iginla...if its a homerun go for it. If not there a better value deals out there for me (kipper, Glencross, Cammy, Jaybo, Step) ect. Besides you can't just trade him there are many moving parts and maybe 2 or 3 teams that would actually do any deal

[dino7c]

team is built around Iggy yet he has never had a decent center...they have played much of this year with one NHL quality center on the roster

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

No you don't need to burn it to the ground and have a fire sale. However you need to manage your assists effectively and frankly I disagree with you that Iginla would not fetch a meaningful return. There is no guarantee that he will re-sign with the Calgary Flames. Are you prepared to have him walk for nothing?

The discussion needs to happen soon I agree. If he is not going to resign 100% then the only option is to pull the chute, but if he's willing to sign a Doan like contract and help with the rebuild I am all for it he is still a great player to have on your team and he has mentioned before that he could play till 40.


You never know how fast or how slow rebuilds take. He's a good player tht can help any team I know that.


On the other hand most every other player is on the trade block.


I'm not stupid enough to think Iginla might not want this, but I just don't think we need to push him out the door if he was willing to sign

[Jake]

I'm finding myself on the fence about trading Iginla. I just worried the return might not be worth it. I actually see the Rick Nash trade as a great one for the Jackets. I'd take Anisimov, Dubinsky, Erixon and a 1st in a second for Iginla, but would the Flames see anywhere near that? I'm doubtful, but if they can get close to that I'd be on board.

Personally I'd trade Glencross, Bouwmeester, Cammalleri, Stempniak, Stajan, Giordano, Butler, Comeau, and Jackman before Iginla. Those players all have some value, and I think the Flames could easily get a good start on a rebuild if the management decides to trade most of them, even if they decide not to trade Iginla.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jake

I'm finding myself on the fence about trading Iginla. I just worried the return might not be worth it. I actually see the Rick Nash trade as a great one for the Jackets. I'd take Anisimov, Dubinsky, Erixon and a 1st in a second for Iginla, but would the Flames see anywhere near that? I'm doubtful, but if they can get close to that I'd be on board.

Personally I'd trade Glencross, Bouwmeester, Cammalleri, Stempniak, Stajan, Giordano, Butler, Comeau, and Jackman before Iginla. Those players all have some value, and I think the Flames could easily get a good start on a rebuild if the management decides to trade most of them, even if they decide not to trade Iginla.

Nash is young and not a UFA in a few months

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by Jake

I'm finding myself on the fence about trading Iginla. I just worried the return might not be worth it. I actually see the Rick Nash trade as a great one for the Jackets. I'd take Anisimov, Dubinsky, Erixon and a 1st in a second for Iginla, but would the Flames see anywhere near that? I'm doubtful, but if they can get close to that I'd be on board.

Personally I'd trade Glencross, Bouwmeester, Cammalleri, Stempniak, Stajan, Giordano, Butler, Comeau, and Jackman before Iginla. Those players all have some value, and I think the Flames could easily get a good start on a rebuild if the management decides to trade most of them, even if they decide not to trade Iginla.

We'd be lucky to get Dubinsky, a 1st and a lesser prospect for Iggy IMO.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I would hate if the Flames went scorched earth rebuild. The team really 'stinks' right now, but that doesn't mean that every individual piece does. Flames should keep a number of younger guys (under 30) around to keep the kids from getting over their head. Keep the team somewhat competitive. Losing is something that is difficult to overcome once you start.

However, I would prefer the Flames trade away players for picks first, prospects second, and roster players third (plus any cap hits back of course). The reason I say this, is that this team doesn't suck because they don't have a #1 Center (though it is a glaring hole). They are performing poorly because they simply do not have enough talent - especially enough franchise talent. Calgary is a very, very good 'depth' team (though some will argue that), but few impact players.

No team is going to trade a 'franchise' player in return for our players. (yeah, obviously).

No team is going to give up a future franchise player (especially at center) in terms of a highly touted prospect (at least not without massively overpaying - and in the end, the Flames are back to one franchise player and lots of depth)

It is much more likely that the Flames find their franchise players through picks. Sure, there will be some misses of course, but that is to be expected. No team drafts 100%. Odds are tough to calculate anyways - teams have good and bad years drafting, where those picks occur, up and down years in terms of available talent in drafts...

This is why I personally didn't like the RoR offer-sheet too much - the pick (even in 10-14) could potentially be a better player than RoR will ever be, but increase those odds with entering a retool/rebuild in a shortened season, and that pick may end up top 5 (and let's not forget you get a chance at winning the lottery).

I am not too optimistic now with what Feaster has been quoted as saying in this thread. Sounds like they are more interested in making a quicker turnaround (which I really like - but this year is full of very good potential centers, and it is a shortened season so the 'hurt' at least will be shorter).

I still don't think a team needs sit at the bottom of the standings for seasons on end like the Oilers have. Not to take a cheap-shot at them, but that is just having an inept hockey ops.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by dino7c

team is built around Iggy yet he has never had a decent center...they have played much of this year with one NHL quality center on the roster

Never?

He had a good center an in Craig Conroy...

2001-2002.... 27 goals 48 assists for 75 points

[oldschoolcalgary]

Newsflash people, we are currently last in the Western Conference.

Don't want scorched earth?! We are practically there now! And that is with Iggy and Kipper et al.

Keeping two of the only assets of any value is really the death knell for this franchise....The owners have to realize that Iggy WILL retire...sooner rather than later, so eventually, they will have to move on without Iggy.

While I understand why people want to keep him, the idea that he would not return something better for the franchise long time, as opposed to him playing a few more years isn't the kind of thinking I hope the owners are subscribing to.

[DeluxeMoustache]

It has little to do with Iggy and Kipper. Deleting them solves nothing and leaves more holes.

It is the way the team is built. No checking C, no shutdown D. Not tough to play against.

Darryl made some poor assessments in talent and priorities in adapting to the post lockout game. In 2004 you had people with jobs to do and who were good at those jobs. Hindsight helps us understand that you can't bring in general filler players and stuff them into new roles.

Olli had the talent to get 90 points in Florida and the size and offensive skill to produce. When the Flames were winning with Langkow and Conroy, they each had the solid 2 way game down and supplemented with enough offensive threat. Olli never learned that 2 way game.

Stephane Yelle. The guy was on winners for a reason. A checking C. The Flames have not had that for years. Frustrated other teams' top centers.

Niemenen-Nilson-Donovan. Niemenen was irritating and this line was fast and energetic.

Conroy-Moss-Glencross under Keenan were a great depth line. Now that Glencross fancies himself a scorer and spent time with Olli rather than Conny he forgot how to play without the puck apparently. Needs a guy like Conny supporting the D and also keeping him accountable.

Phaneuf had swagger and people couldn't stand playing against him, kept their heads up. Sure he put himself out of position at times, but he had compete. Bouw made him expendable. Peca said how tough of a night you have against Bouw.

The D for years had some of Regehr, Warrener, Phaneuf, even Commodore during the run was mean.

Just no identity and it's not on Iggy. Even when he is winning board battles, hitting and shooting, he is not going to make Bouwmeester and Butler physical or turn Olli into a smart attentive 2 way center.

The team needs to follow a blueprint, and Phaneuf for spare part generalists set this franchise back. Burke built a good young D in Toronto. If there was any merit to those rumours, you can bet there would be a good shakeup.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Dion

Never?

He had a good center an in Craig Conroy...

2001-2002.... 27 goals 48 assists for 75 points

playing with the best player in the game...before Iginla he was a defensive 3rd line center