2020/21 International Club Football Thread

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

They don't always run the table. Lyon won 7 consecutive French titles. We had a Monaco-Porto final once.

The main difference with the Champions League is that no matter how top heavy it is, it's still an open tournament. One year Man U might be not be in it. One year Arsenal might not be in it. One year Leicester or Atalanta are in it. Sure it's still money driven but a billionaire might take a chance on an outsider. PSG is a fairly new team. They debuted in the Champions League in 95 and now they are a juggernaut. Same with Man City. If the Super League had been created in 92 instead of the revamped Champions League, why would a billionaire invest in PSG or Man City for essentially a rotational league spot?

Fair enough regarding Lyon, them and PSG have essentially been leading their domestic league for over two decades now and I am sure Champions league money has helped them stay atop their leagues.

Bayern Munich has won the Bundesliga 29 times, the next closest is Borussia Dortmund with 5.

I just think the whole idea that there is a meritocracy within the world of domestic leagues doesn't hold much weight.m

[The Big Chill]

Having a few teams win everything doesn’t mean it isn’t a meritocracy. Those teams have earned their money by winning and having the biggest fan bases (not including the oil clubs like Man City who cheat FFP of course). It isn’t easy to join the top clubs, but it is possible. Most of the top clubs have played in lower divisions throughout history.

Giving the best players to the worst teams and making them stay there like NA sports is definitely not meritocracy, even if some people enjoy the parity more.

The romantic part of European football is the dream of your Sunday pub league team climbing the ladder and becoming a CL winner one day. That appears to be going away.

[Senator Clay Davis]

FFP was designed for one primary reason: To protect the big clubs by making it virtually impossible for new teams to join the upper echelon. It certainly wasn't designed to protect clubs from themselves because Barcelona are ####ed financially, but haven't been sanctioned even slightly, and will likely add more debt this summer. Just another example of UEFA bending over to try and protect the elite, helping to bring about the sense of entitlement that is now ironically haunting UEFA. Even the new CL setup was designed to help the big clubs maintain power, and it wasn't enough to keep them breaking away. UEFA battling the monster they helped make is certainly hilarious.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Except the competition will be too strong.
If you think this Flames season has been hard, just wait for Arsenal vs Super League opponents.
I sense a 9-1 smashing from Real Madrid coming up

I, maybe very naively, think that teams in the super league will have the pressure of performing and spending the money to get better talent.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

FFP was designed for one primary reason: To protect the big clubs by making it virtually impossible for new teams to join the upper echelon. It certainly wasn't designed to protect clubs from themselves because Barcelona are ####ed financially, but haven't been sanctioned even slightly, and will likely add more debt this summer. Just another example of UEFA bending over to try and protect the elite, helping to bring about the sense of entitlement that is now ironically haunting UEFA. Even the new CL setup was designed to help the big clubs maintain power, and it wasn't enough to keep them breaking away. UEFA battling the monster they helped make is certainly hilarious.

If this was the case though, the newly proposed 36 team CL using the swiss-system format makes no sense.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Igottago

This is really interesting, because this is what this elite cartel of clubs in banking on. I'm an Arsenal fan and I hate the proposal, but they know there are international and somewhat casual fans who don't care about the history of the domestic game, the idea of qualifying, promotion/relegation and how its woven into the fabric of the sport there.

I'm not bashing you because you are obviously free to consume the sport however you see fit, but the most ardent fans are sickened by this and for good reason. They don't want to just see the best teams week in week out without earning it. And with Arsenal, they most certainly haven't earned anything of the sort for many years. It feels cheap.

But your viewpoint is very eye opening and I think its the very reason these teams are moving forward with it. They know for every North Londener they anger, there is someone in Canada, the US, China, India or wherever else they can sell the brand to. The casual and international fan doesn't care about the mid week premier league game vs Brighton, its irrelevant to that broader audience. They will just say bring on teams like Barca and Real Madrid every week, and the money will still flow.

No offense taken. I won’t call myself a fair weather or casual fan by any stretch of the imagination. To be honest I’m a much bigger fan of the national teams though as opposed to club level football.

Arsenal is my team, and I follow them really closely. I won’t wake up for early morning games though, even though I might do that for F1 races (bad example for parity though). The main reason for me is because of the lack of parity.
I get the fun and joy of a Cinderella run. I enjoyed when Leicester won a few years back, but that was chased right away with will Vardy or Mahrez move on during the next transfer window. Is that true meritocracy? The mid tier teams find it tough to compete year in and year out just on management or game play since it is the ownership’s pocket that matters. If you put a cap on transfers or find a way to increase parity, sure. But that is not the way the sport is. A super league becomes attractive in that manner. Teams are playing on a relative playing field. It might even reduce the so-called super teams (Real Madrid, Barcelona) , since teams will have a reason to hold on to their talent. I think a Chelsea will think twice before moving on from a Hazard, or Spurs with a Bale.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

The romantic part of European football is the dream of your Sunday pub league team climbing the ladder and becoming a CL winner one day. That appears to be going away.

this, and I firmly believe that "openness" needs to be maintained. It's already been limited in the past years, but still, there's great stories like Leicester winning the PL or Bournemouth going from 4th division to PL. It's an important element of European football.

plus I think some people here underestimate how engrained these clubs are in their cities. There are deep roots that go back many decades and there's a lot of romanticization when it comes to the history of the clubs and former players. Fans live and breathe that stuff. I'm not saying that can't be the case in US sports, but stuff like relocations would never fly in European football (except the rare tragedies like Wimbledon). Could you imagine, say, the owners of a PL club like Newcastle deciding "#### it, we're moving the team to Coventry!". Good luck with that ####.

also, people quickly point to parity when they want to defend the US league systems. Point taken, but people forget that this system is all about making as much money as possible. Right now, the elite clubs in European football are competing against each other when it comes to transfer fees, agent fees, player salaries and so on. I have no doubt that the ESL clubs would quickly install a salary cap, effectively lowering the players' wages to pocket even more money. That's what it's all about.

[Senator Clay Davis]

My man....

https://twitter.com/user/status/1384252197081272326

[The Familia]

Every pro sport/league across the globe has become nothing more than a money grabbing venture. The days of "playing for the love of the game" are long gone and never coming back. This is all about money and how much they can extort from fans. I swear that if the CFL folds I'm done with all pro sports for good. I've just become so disillusioned with sports and the constant bickering and fighting of millionaire/billionaire players/owners. They can all shove it up their asses as I'm done giving them another cent of my money.

[devo22]

also, I find it interesting that some people think clubs like Bayern or even PSG are to be applauded here. They'll happily take part in this if it becomes a reality (Bayern's interest in a super league is well-documented), they were just smart enough to wait in the back while 12 idiots rush forward and fall on the sword if the project fails.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by devo22

also, I find it interesting that some people think clubs like Bayern or even PSG are to be applauded here. They'll happily take part in this if it becomes a reality (Bayern's interest in a super league is well-documented), they were just smart enough to wait in the back while 12 idiots rush forward and fall on the sword if the project fails.

If Bayern and PSG are the 13th and 14th idiots, who are the final six idiots to join? The presser says it'll be a total of a 20 idiot league.

[devo22]

I've read 15 in the inaugural season, with Bayern, PSG and Porto rumoured to be the other 3. I'm sure they could also convince Dortmund and Leipzig at some point. Roma have American owners too, I'm surprised they aren't already in this. Lyon, Monaco, Napoli, Lazio ... there's options. I think of the teams that they could potentially target, only Ajax and Sevilla have so far come out and condemned the plans.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

If Bayern and PSG are the 13th and 14th idiots, who are the final six idiots to join? The presser says it'll be a total of a 20 idiot league.

Clubs with the most titles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tition_winners

[cheevers]

I will be curious to see what the attendance will be like in the "Super" League after 4 or 5 years. Watching the same games, where it's harder and harder to get to the away games will take it's toll. Then the league will start doing a week of games in Beijing, Los Angeles, or Abu Dhabi. Then Liverpool, or Arsenal, or Juventus will start playing half their games there. No longer will it be a club. But hey, at least they will have a few extra dollars.

Now is the time for the domestic leagues to act, balance out the tv/prize payments so those in the league can have a fairer shot. Also, no more letting the top teams poach young talent from lower leagues for a couple hundred grand.

This truly only appeals to the casual fan, any lifelong, or dedicated fan will reject this outright. Imagine if you are a fan of one of those teams, no more games against Ajax, Anderlecht, Benfica, all enormous clubs in the past, and great European nights out, gone for the greed of owners. Hope this blows up and they all have to beg their way back in. All these teams can and will be replaced, teams will take their spots and glory.

[Senator Clay Davis]

UEFA is in discussions with Centricus Asset Management over a 6 billion-euro ($7.2 billion) financing package to overhaul its flagship soccer tournament and stop plans for a new breakaway Super League, according to people familiar with the matter.

The Switzerland-based sporting body is working with Centricus on a plan to fund a new-look UEFA Champions League tournament, the people said, asking not to be identified discussing confidential information.

Negotiations are ongoing and there’s no certainty UEFA and London-based Centricus will reach an agreement, according to the people. A representative for Centricus declined to comment, while a spokesperson for UEFA didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...from-centricus

[devo22]

it's all to help these poor clubs survive

https://twitter.com/user/status/1384267592601276429

[flames_fan_down_under]

I am really interested to see how this all plays out.

The lure of the Champions League is those rare matchups between the best domestic clubs in the world, and obviously to see your team win the ultimate prize. With the Super League those once rare matchups will become common occurrences and may eventually lose that allure that made them so special.

The money will ultimately be coming from TV deals so I suppose the owners know that they will be able to make more money and distribute it however they want. There are however always going to be billionaires buying sports teams and eventually those 15 teams might not necessarily be the best teams in the world, kind of like how Arsenal is a middle of the pack team right now, and also might not be where the best players are, and where the owners are willing to pay the most money.

Or it's a complete success and changes the entire football sporting landscape forever.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...from-centricus

Ya that's their only hope

Make it more lucrative and give the clubs more control

Also the swiss league set up has got to go since it doesnt guarantee good matchups

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

If Bayern and PSG are the 13th and 14th idiots, who are the final six idiots to join? The presser says it'll be a total of a 20 idiot league.

Boca Jr, Sao Paulo or Internazional, Red Bull New York and LA Galaxy,

[GirlySports]

Marseille would be the other French team to fan the rivalry more. And they have deep pockets even though they suck.