2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Evolving-Hockey's model had Puljujarvi providing north of $8 million in value last season, FWIW. I wouldn't go nearly that high, but underachieving relative to draft position does not equate to a useless player.

I would be absolutely fine with Puljujarvi playing on my team's second or third line.

Seriously, you watched games. Try and type, with a straight face, that the bolded comment seems even remotely similar to the reality that played out on the ice.

As someone posted earlier, Puljujarvi is the poster child for the phrase 'all the tools, no toolbox'. He looks like he is completely out of phase with his team-mates. Does he make plays occasionally? Sure, the tools are there. But he is lost out there. And he does not make those around him better. In any way. He is a 25 point player without McDavid as his C. At best.

Some of your takes on players absolutely baffle me.

[TheScorpion]

I don't see a lost player at all. I see a capable scoring second-line forward who I would probably have no problem valuing at around $5 million.

My takes on players are as follows: I like players who help their team score more than the other team

[TheScorpion]

Also important to note Puljujarvi's scoring rates without McDavid are better than McDavid's without Puljujarvi.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Also important to note Puljujarvi's scoring rates without McDavid are better than McDavid's without Puljujarvi.

He just does not pass any eye tests. I don't see the so called upside on the kid. He's big, can skate but as noted NO hockey sense.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Also important to note Puljujarvi's scoring rates without McDavid are better than McDavid's without Puljujarvi.

Are you saying that Pully scored more goals (points?) per 60/minutes playing without Mcdavid, than McDavid did playing without Pully?

I'd like to see those numbers.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Seriously, you watched games. Try and type, with a straight face, that the bolded comment seems even remotely similar to the reality that played out on the ice.

As someone posted earlier, Puljujarvi is the poster child for the phrase 'all the tools, no toolbox'. He looks like he is completely out of phase with his team-mates. Does he make plays occasionally? Sure, the tools are there. But he is lost out there. And he does not make those around him better. In any way. He is a 25 point player without McDavid as his C. At best.

Some of your takes on players absolutely baffle me.

People would have said the exact same thing about Nichushkin before his big break out last season. People said the exact same thing about Evolving Wild’s model when it had Nichushkin as a really valuable player back in 19-20 and 20-21 as well before he was putting up points.

All the advanced stats models have really liked Puljujarvi’s game the last two years.

And when I watch the game I see a 6’4” forward who can skate well that is responsible defensively and generates volume but maybe not quality offensively.

He’s maybe not the most refined offensive producer but I do think NHL teams would have been smart to take a flyer on him for the 2nd round pick the Oilers were reportedly asking for.

$3M is not an overpayment at all for what he brings.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't see a lost player at all. I see a capable scoring second-line forward who I would probably have no problem valuing at around $5 million.

My takes on players are as follows: I like players who help their team score more than the other team

Way too high, if he actually had that kinda value the Oilers would have moved him for a decent return. They have been shopping him all summer at 3M with no takers.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Some of your takes on players absolutely baffle me.

The limitations of advanced stats become evident with players like Puljujarvi.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Blues are re-up’ing Kyrou long term

https://twitter.com/user/status/1569702838502100994

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The limitations of advanced stats become evident with players like Puljujarvi.

the numbers don't lie, but the analyst might twist or misinterpret.
Nichushkin is likely an outlier. Using a single player as a comparator for Puljujarvi is not a good approach; even worse if that single player is an outlier

[scotty2hotty]

I haven't read through the last few pages ... but are there legit rumours of Puljujarvi to the Flames?

Or just CP chattin'?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

I haven't read through the last few pages ... but are there legit rumours of Puljujarvi to the Flames?

Or just CP chattin'?

Just chatting.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

or — and hear me out — he's a very effective player who makes great things happen when he's on the ice, despite the criticisms constantly levied at him for largely intangible reasons.

$8m is absolutely a stretch. "Useless" and "unproductive" are much bigger stretches. he's been very good and will likely continue to be, and we should all be laughing about how the Oilers are trying to move him when they have far worse players on the roster making huge dollars — Foegele and Barrie immediately come to mind.

comparing him to Buddy Robinson — a 6'6" AHL bottom-sixer with nine career NHL points — is legitimately absurd to me. I don't understand the thought process behind that whatsoever. I'm assuming it's a E=NG thing, but I would expect the more plausible reaction to be of amused disbelief at the Oilers actively trying to unload a player who is highly effective by every quantitative measure.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1569386276503052290

I will respond to your post since you are obviously referencing my post above (again). I really dislike arguments like this (and I am not saying that it is only you guilty of this - plenty of arguments on here and in real life with people intentionally (or even unintentionally) changing a key word or two to misrepresent a stance). It turns the argument upside down and suddenly turns the conversation upside-down.



No, I did not say that Puljujarvi EQUALS Robinson. I said he is CLOSER to Robinson than Nichushkin. That's a huge difference there, no? Suddenly not so 'absurd' when you aren't changing qualifiers to prove a point. I can say "I love kids" - good statement. You can't turn it around and say: "You are in love with kids." That changes the spectrum completely, and turns me from a guy who is great around kids to a guy who should be banned from being closer than 500 metres from a kid.



It is an analogy of scale, with Robinson at one end, and Nichushkin at the other.



A) 59GP 15G 19A 34PTS
B) 65GP 14G 22A 36PTS


Can you guess which stat line is from Puljujarvi's time with McDavid vs Kassian's time with McDavid? If you guessed either A or B, you are technically wrong, since the correct answer should be:



C) They both suck too much to continue playing with McDavid.



That's the important part. This is why Puljujarvi is a much closer player in aptitude to Buddy Robinson than he is to Nichushkin. It isn't just production - Nichushkin has shown himself to be an excellent defensive player almost his entire career, and he has been growing his offensive game and just out-scored Puljujarvi by 11 goals, with nowhere the same opportunity as Puljujarvi.


Again, the key word is closer, not equal to. How much closer? I didn't even say how much closer either. Whether it is one degree or the full 90.

[howard_the_duck]

The no toolbox prevents JP from achieving his draft projected ceiling.

But big bodied players with skill and can skate absolutely plays in this league. His tools will keep him in the league, and as a very serviceable player.

Tons of exaggeration in this thread to what he isn’t. Can’t have anything to do with who he plays for…

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

The no toolbox prevents JP from achieving his draft projected ceiling.

But big bodied players with skill and can skate absolutely plays in this league. His tools will keep him in the league, and as a very serviceable player.

Tons of exaggeration in this thread to what he isn’t. Can’t have anything to do with who he plays for…

To me he's probably going to go down a similar road as Rene Bourque if he's lucky.

[Monahammer]

0 chance the oilers trade Pulju here. Even if they don't believe in him at all, they value the risk that any player turns it around in red extremely highly, and so a player with this type of potential would literally never be traded here.

[cam_wmh]

Did anyone watch Subban last season in New Jersey? What's the deal with him?
Is he asking a premium?

Just spoke with an Oilers fan buddy, and he doesn't want him. Is that how far he's fallen? EVEN THE OILERS DONT WANT HIM?

[Buff]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Did anyone watch Subban last season in New Jersey? What's the deal with him?
Is he asking a premium?

Just spoke with an Oilers fan buddy, and he doesn't want him. Is that how far he's fallen? EVEN THE OILERS DONT WANT HIM?

All I saw of him last year were his multiple slew foot attempts.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Did anyone watch Subban last season in New Jersey? What's the deal with him?
Is he asking a premium?

Just spoke with an Oilers fan buddy, and he doesn't want him. Is that how far he's fallen? EVEN THE OILERS DONT WANT HIM?

He’s just not good anymore. It’s a shame because he was a treat to watch when he was a Hab. For some reason he had the same trajectory as Phaneuf.

[MrMike]

I expect him to land somewhere this season. If I recall correctly, I believe he has had offers.

If we didn’t get Weegar, I would have liked him here in a number 6 role and PP/slewfoot specialist.