Zeitgeist, 9/11, and Other Conspiracies

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well they were WAY off course for a sustained amount of time........

Think about it....

I must say, 30 pages, masterful job here.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well they were WAY off course for a sustained amount of time........

With the FAA calling for EVERY SINGLE plane in the air to land ASAP, I imagine (pure speculation mind you) a number of planes were way off course of a sustained amount of time.

[Gozer]

"Flight 182 do you need assistance"
-dead air-

/back to minesweeper

edit: no pun/horrible joke intended

[CaptainCrunch]

You do realize that the hijackers turned off the onboard transponders so they basically became unidentified blips on air traffic radar and there were about 4000 to 4500 blips on Norads radar at the time. Combine that with the fact that the airplanes were flying erratically and you have a tougher calculated interception.

At the time there was no standardized communication link between Norad and the FAA which controlled the civilian air traffic controllers which resulted in chaotic communications between the two.

With Payne Stewart it was an easier interception because the transponder in the plane didn't fail but it still took the F-16 over an hour to reach the private jet.

Combine that with a completely new situation with domestic aircraft hijacking with multiple events and the fact that up until after 2001 Norad had not set up domestic interception zones, and all interception zone were off shore.

Basically Norad did not have a domestic flight interception and defense policy in place as its challenges were built around attacks through the air from outside of the united states. A non defined communication system between the FAA controllers and Norad. Planes with no transponders and flying erratically and your chances of some high speed interception are next to zero.

Also until 2001 military planes were prohibited from supersonic interceptions over american soil.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well they were WAY off course for a sustained amount of time........

really eh?

9:41 Cleveland Center lost United 93's transponder signal. The controller located the aircraft on primary radar, matched its position with visual sightings from other aircraft, and tracked the flight as it turned east, then south.

10:03:11 United 93 crashed in a field near Johnstown, Pa., 125 miles from Washington, D.C.

So...22 minutes is a "sustained amount of time" and enough to scramble fighters AND intercept?

[arsenal]

They actually did scramble 2 F-15's. But because they didn't know which planes where hijacked, or their intended targets, there is no intercept / attack vector in which the fighters can take. Therefore they are kind of stuck in a holding pattern.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...cks#8:00_Hours

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by arsenal

With the FAA calling for EVERY SINGLE plane in the air to land ASAP, I imagine (pure speculation mind you) a number of planes were way off course of a sustained amount of time.

Yes, but that was AFTER either the first or second plane impact on the towers. What about before then when the hijacked planes went off course??

Like CaptainCrunch said;
You do realize that the hijackers turned off the onboard transponders so they basically became unidentified blips on air traffic radar and there were about 4000 to 4500 blips on Norads radar at the time. End quote.

And according to the article about NORAD that I posted, they were supposed to take action in this very circumstance. When something in the sky is "unidentified", it is supposed to be looked into.

[mikey_the_redneck]

I would like to post this 20 minute video from the Political Action Committee website........this is not a "crack pot" site.

The interviewee talks about previously classified documents and makes claims that Saudi and British intellegence were behind the 9/11 attacks. I have not seen this before. It is interesting to say the least. It gets real mushy.......

http://www.larouchepac.com/lpactv?nid=11005

[photon]

Watch out, those goalposts are really moving!

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Yes, but that was AFTER either the first or second plane impact on the towers. What about before then when the hijacked planes went off course??

Read the timeline on the wiki link i posted.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

And according to the article about NORAD that I posted, they were supposed to take action in this very circumstance. When something in the sky is "unidentified", it is supposed to be looked into.

See above.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by arsenal

Read the timeline on the wiki link i posted.

They don't read links. They just spew and spew and spew this illogical garbage. I point back to my earlier post, providing court documents showing the whole "Obama isn't a natural american" crap is completely fabricated and that it has been thrown out of court before. The response? Nothing except to change subjects to something more ludicrous.

I know it's been said before, but conspiracy nuttos, just because your silly question doesn't have an answer doesn't make it right. Hey, why don't I fly sideways and crap diamonds? Must be because the government doesn't want me to be able to fly, it would be a threat to their air superiority. So they have motion stabilizers all over to prevent humans from doing it. That's what stop signs really are. Open your mind!

Diamond cartels, which actually have people crapping out diamonds all over the world, have conspired with Cysco foods and have an additive in all processed foods that keep your body from producing them. Break free from the grid!

See how easy that was! The thread title should be changed to "Random Conspiracy Talk / Trolling Arena"

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I would like to post this 20 minute video from the Political Action Committee website........this is not a "crack pot" site.

The interviewee talks about previously classified documents and makes claims that Saudi and British intellegence were behind the 9/11 attacks. I have not seen this before. It is interesting to say the least. It gets real mushy.......

http://www.larouchepac.com/lpactv?nid=11005

I really think this thread needs to be locked.

People who think Alex Jones is not a crackpot are the only people who would think Lyndon LaRouche isn't a crackpot.

You claim you don't put full credence into infowars and Alex Jones. yet you continuously post links to his site as evidence. The only person you are fooling is yourself

Now you flat out say that LaRouche isn't a crackpot. Which I guess from your view he isn't but from everyone elses he is which is what I am assuming is what you meant. The guy spent 15 yrs. in jail for mail fraud and tax violations for christ sakes. But I bet the Bildeberg's set him up. Just because you say that it's not a crackpot site doesn't make it true.

from wiki:

There are sharply contrasting opinions on LaRouche. Supporters have described him as the greatest living economist,[2] and a political leader in the tradition of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Martin Luther King.[3][4] Critics have called him an extremist,[5] a conspiracy theorist, [6] a political cult leader,[7] a fascist,[8] and/or an antisemite.

[CaptainCrunch]

Honestly Larouche is far beyond a crackpot, he's a bat insane jew hating con man.

There is no credibility to be gained by using him as a source.

"From Ezra onwards, and even before, Hebrewism was an assimilationist doctrine developed to provide special juridical status (and ideological self-image) for a caste of merchant-userers within a pre-capitalist society."



"Judaism is not a true religion, but only a half-religion, a curious
appendage and sub-species of Christianity."



"Judaism is ideological abstraction of the secular life of
Christianity's Jew, the Roman merchant-userer who had not yet evolved to the state of Papal enlightenment, a half-Christian, who had not developed a Christian conscience."



"Judaism is the religion of a caste of subjects of Christianity,
entirely molded by ingenious rabbis to fit into the ideological and
secular life of Christianity. In short, a self- sustaining Judaism
never existed and never could exist. As for Jewish culture otherwise,
it is merely the residue left to the Jewish home after everything
saleable has been marketed to the Goyim."




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_o..._the_Holocaust

LaRouche has also been accused of Holocaust denial. In 1978, LaRouche wrote (in "New Pamphlet to Document Cult Origins of Zionism", New Solidarity, December 8, 1978) that only 1.5 million Jews died during World War II:
It is argued that the culmination of the persecution of the Jews in the Nazi holocaust proves that Zionism is so essential to 'Jewish survival' that any anti-Zionist is therefore not only an anti-Semite, but that any sort of criminal action is excusable against anti-Zionists in memory of the mythical 'six million Jewish victims' of the Nazi "holocaust." This is worse than sophistry. It is a lie. True, about a million and a half Jews did die as a result of the Nazi policy of labor-intensive "appropriate technology" for the employment of "inferior races", a small fraction of the tens of million of others – especially Slavs – who were murdered in the same way Jewish refugee Felix Rohatyn proposes today. Even on a relati

This guy is a nut who believes that the Protocals of the Edlders of Zion was a real and factual document

The Czarist Okhrana's Protocols of Zion include a hard kernel of truth which no mere Swiss court decision could legislate out of existence. The fallacy of the Protocols of Zion is that it attributes the alleged conspiracy to Jews generally, to Judaism. A corrected version of The Protocols would stipulate that the evil oaths cited were actually the practices of variously a Paris branch of B'nai B'rith and the evidence the Okhrana turned up in tracing the penetration of the Romanian branch of B'nai B'rith (Zion) into such Russian centres of relevance as Odessa...

as opposed to a fabricated document written by anti-Semite author Hermann Goedsche.

LaRouche later moderated his opinions because he was seeking public office.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

really eh?

9:41 Cleveland Center lost United 93's transponder signal. The controller located the aircraft on primary radar, matched its position with visual sightings from other aircraft, and tracked the flight as it turned east, then south.

10:03:11 United 93 crashed in a field near Johnstown, Pa., 125 miles from Washington, D.C.

So...22 minutes is a "sustained amount of time" and enough to scramble fighters AND intercept?

Okay you caught me.............generalizing.

Depart time Hijacked Impact
Flight 175 8:10am 8:42 9:03
Flight 77 8:20am 8:51 9:37
Flight 11 7:45 8:14 8:45
Flight 93 8:46 9:27 10:03

Are you happy? I put alot of effort into this.........

As you can see here, the hijackers had control of the planes for atleast a half an hour in 3 of the 4 planes, the ladder being under hijacker control for 20 minutes.
I think NORAD could have intercepted atleast one of these planes, but they used a conveniant excuse that they were having war game exercises that very day.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Sowa

I really think this thread needs to be locked.

People who think Alex Jones is not a crackpot are the only people who would think Lyndon LaRouche isn't a crackpot.

You claim you don't put full credence into infowars and Alex Jones. yet you continuously post links to his site as evidence. The only person you are fooling is yourself

Now you flat out say that LaRouche isn't a crackpot. Which I guess from your view he isn't but from everyone elses he is which is what I am assuming is what you meant. The guy spent 15 yrs. in jail for mail fraud and tax violations for christ sakes. But I bet the Bildeberg's set him up. Just because you say that it's not a crackpot site doesn't make it true.

from wiki:

Alot of the articles (say 1/3 to 1/2) on Alex Jones' website are not written by he or his writers. They often just have links for youtube vids/stories written by other news agencies, some foreign and some mainstream. They just add their own commentary on it and provide the link. It is just easy for me because infowars is a concentrated place for alot of different writings on 9/11.

I have not been to the LaRouche website before today actually, so excuse me on that I see he is a crack pot, but he is not IN the video anyways. The guy in the video has some decent credibility with what he does.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Sowa

I really think this thread needs to be locked.

You sure? OK....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Alot of the articles (say 1/3 to 1/2) on Alex Jones' website are not written by he or his writers. They often just have links for youtube vids/stories written by other news agencies, some foreign and some mainstream. They just add their own commentary on it and provide the link. It is just easy for me because infowars is a concentrated place for alot of different writings on 9/11.

I have not been to the LaRouche website before today actually, so excuse me on that I see he is a crack pot, but he is not IN the video anyways. The guy in the video has some decent credibility with what he does.

The guy in the video is basically an employee of the PAC, he has no credibility whatsoever.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Okay you caught me.............generalizing.

Depart time Hijacked Impact
Flight 175 8:10am 8:42 9:03
Flight 77 8:20am 8:51 9:37
Flight 11 7:45 8:14 8:45
Flight 93 8:46 9:27 10:03

Are you happy? I put alot of effort into this.........

As you can see here, the hijackers had control of the planes for atleast a half an hour in 3 of the 4 planes, the ladder being under hijacker control for 20 minutes.
I think NORAD could have intercepted atleast one of these planes, but they used a conveniant excuse that they were having war game exercises that very day.

It took an airforce interceptor 1 hour and 22 minutes to locate Payne Stewarts plane and it was flying straight and had its transponder on.

The terrorist planes had no transponders and were flying erratic courses so its highly unlikely that the air force could have intercepted any of those planes.

The airforce wasn't on alert that day. I believe that in the 48 north american states that a total of 14 aircraft were on ready alert, and again at the time there was no formalized communication strategy between Norad and the FAA, on top of that Norad didn't have intercept zones within the continental U.S as their interception zones were based on incoming threats not internal threats. Also as I stated before it was against Standing orders up until after 9-11 for Aircraft to use Super sonic flight for interception over the continental U.S.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Sowa

I really think this thread needs to be locked.

Res Alien takes the Meatloaf Approach.

I take the DEADPOOL APPROACH

[transplant99]

the hijackers had control of the planes for atleast a half an hour in 3 of the 4 planes, the ladder being under hijacker control for 20 minutes

20 minutes is a lot of time?

Think about it....pilot has to get his gear on, get to his plane, do his pre-flight checks, take off, travel XXX miles, visually confirm its the correct target.....all in 20 minutes. All this without a transponder or communication from said aircraft.

The whole thing is just ludicrous.