Firstly - Why don't you explain how OK is 'down' ? Because he hasnt signed a contract in 4 days? He could very well sign a great contract still. He didn't get thrown out of the league! He chose to exercise his right to UFA and people are letting their opinions of that decisions be known,
Secondly - You think those statements are "kicking someone when they are down?
Good Ridance is kicking someone when they are down - Wow talk about reaching
For someone who often is telling the cancel culture complainers that "actions have consequences" on this very board, you sure are quick to jump to the defense of someones who's actions have had public opinion consequences.
Does OK deserve special public opinion treatment on leaving as a UFA because he had mental health issues? I sure don't think so
Last edited by Jason14h; 07-04-2024 at 08:04 PM.
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Maybe he didn’t trash the flames in a vocal or written sense. His actions speak louder than words, and they speak volumes
Lol. The guy and his agent are trying to get his best deal. I suspect they didn’t think it would go this far. Lots of players have done this in the past, as is their right.
Firstly - Why don't you explain how OK is 'down' ? Because he hasnt signed a contract in 4 days? He could very well sign a great contract still. He didn't get thrown out of the league! He chose to exercise his right to UFA and people are letting their opinions of that decisions be known,
Maybe he isn’t, maybe he is. No idea. Weird thing to get hung up on. You know he’s not literally getting “kicked” either right? You know how phrases and idioms work? “Kick him when he’s down” means criticizing/insulting someone when they’re in a weaker/vulnerable position or have suffered a setback. Maybe that’s him! Maybe not, but I think we’re both intelligent enough to understand the point.
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Originally Posted by Jason14h
Secondly - You think those statements are "kicking someone when they are down?
Good Ridance is kicking someone when they are down - Wow talk about reaching
Sure. You say “good riddance” to anyone leaving and have it be anything but an insult? Get called overrated? Have someone disparage your character? Have people say “don’t come crying back”? None of this ring as critiques or insults to you? Cool. But weird. Maybe it’s a little quirk of yours, who knows, but most people know how to identify these things.
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Originally Posted by Jason14h
For someone who often is telling the cancel culture complainers that "actions have consequences" on this very board, you sure are quick to jump to the defense of someones who's actions have had public opinion consequences.
Unless you’re suggesting choosing to go UFA is similar to Kylington sexually assaulting someone, or being a racist, or along those lines, this is a really weird and desperate thing to bring up, as this really has no relation to cancel culture whatsoever. Did you honestly think you had something by trying to contrast me suggesting “actions have consequences” when someone gets fired for being a racist with me suggesting it’s over the top to try to drag Kylington’s character for going UFA? lol. Did you think about that at all before you posted it or did it kind of just fall out?
But yes, thank you. All actions from individuals in the public have public opinion consequences. And sometimes, sharing your opinion publicly also has public opinion consequences. Sometimes, someone does something, and as a consequence, you share a trashy opinion about it, and sometimes, people react to your opinion about it. Glad you’re caught up.
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Originally Posted by Jason14h
Does OK deserve special public opinion treatment on leaving as a UFA because he had mental health issues? I sure don't think so
Then why is he getting “special” public opinion treatment? Because I’d be surprised if you could find anyone else getting the same treatment for wanting a 2 year contract instead of a 1 year and remaining unsigned lol.
Lol. The guy and his agent are trying to get his best deal. I suspect they didn’t think it would go this far. Lots of players have done this in the past, as is their right.
Having the right isn't the same as being right.
Looks to me like the Flames have moved on, and Kylington isn't going to get any offers with the term he reportedly wanted.
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These guys sum up my exact thoughts on this issue:
That was a brutally honest assessment and really hits home. Oliver and his camp have shown a lack of professionalism during this entire process when you take into consideration how the club handled his absence. I do wonder who is driving the decision and whether or not he is getting bad advice from his agent.
As a side note, we don’t know how involved ownership is when it comes to these types of players, but perhaps Murray Edwards steps in and tells Conroy to shut the door. He is the guy who signed cheques and paid a player to get healthy when other options were available (such as the suspension route the Barn Burner guys talked about). The fact that the goodwill was not reciprocated seems like a slap in the face. I say this with a caveat in that we don’t know what the Flames were/have offered but the player doesn’t have much of a case for a substantial pay increase/term as the sample size hasn’t been big enough.
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To me it's still weird...if you aligned on the $$ then aligning on term should have been easy if it was 1 or 2 years.
In the end though I do get why the Flames would be hesitant to go beyond 1 year....but if 2 years keeps the asset then I would have done that. And vice versa for Kylington, I don't get why you'd risk the scenario you're in now to try to push for a second year.
Seems completely avoidable overall.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 07-04-2024 at 09:38 PM.
As a side note, we don’t know how involved ownership is when it comes to these types of players, but perhaps Murray Edwards steps in and tells Conroy to shut the door.
I don't understand, why bring Murray Edwards into this? The Flames were talking contract with Kylington, it was the player wanted to test FA market. Edwards didn't tell Conroy to talk contract with the player in the beginning. It's just baffle my mind.
As a side note, we don’t know how involved ownership is when it comes to these types of players, but perhaps Murray Edwards steps in and tells Conroy to shut the door.
I don't understand, why bring Murray Edwards into this? The Flames were talking contract with Kylington, it was the player wanted to test FA market. Edwards didn't tell Conroy to not talk contract with the player in the beginning. It's just baffle my mind.
I don't understand, why bring Murray Edwards into this? The Flames were talking contract with Kylington, it was the player wanted to test FA market. Edwards didn't tell Conroy to talk contract with the player in the beginning. It's just baffle my mind.
Because he’s the owner and signs the cheques? He paid a guy to stay home and seek treatment while his management team sheltered the player from media and fans. If he comes circling back after testing the market, I can see the club saying thanks but no thanks. As the barn burner guys mentioned, he may have lost all good will by going to free agency (which was well within his rights but strange given the circumstances).
We literally have no idea what has gone on with Kylington. What if it’s a family issue that he needs to be closer to home? What if his finances are in shambles?
Crazier things have happened to professional athletes. Big accusations on Kylington not being professional and courteous to the Flames. I have a hard time going there because we just have no idea what’s gone on, and the silence around all of this to me at least suggests it’s significant and any hasty judgment is misguided.
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It’s weird for me only because i would’ve expected a quick market check and if they didn’t like what they see, they would take Connie’s offer. At this point, it’s almost to the point of WTH are you still thinking.
I have liked Kylington since we drafted him, smooth skating and that season with Tanev was so promising.
His struggles over the last two seasons were so relatable, so I hoped even harder for him to finally have some more success in the ice.
But in pro sports, the most important ability is avail ability. And after playing 33/164 games over the last 2 seasons, a raise with term seemed to me as an unreasonable ask.
1 year @ 1 to 1.5 million would have been fair based on his last 2 years of availability. A 1 year contract at his previous AAV would have been generous.
I wish Oliver all the luck in the world wherever he lands. But when he didn't sign before July 1, he forced the Flames to move on, and they did just that by signing Bean.
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We literally have no idea what has gone on with Kylington. What if it’s a family issue that he needs to be closer to home? What if his finances are in shambles?
Still... Your employer supported you financially and protected your privacy throughout your ordeal. Now you are telling them you want a raise or else you will go find employment elsewhere?
Sure, go find a job somewhere else...
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Still... Your employer supported you financially and protected your privacy throughout your ordeal. Now you are telling them you want a raise or else you will go find employment elsewhere?
Sure, go find a job somewhere else...
The point is we have no idea why he rejected an offer. It’s plausible there’s quite a bit more to it.
Barnburner suggested that it very likely could be Kylington's agent giving him this advice, but JP Barry's client list doesn't suggest a history of trying to squeeze teams on contracts.
A lot of Barry's bigger clients are on good value deals...Backlund, Myers, Larsson, Forsberg, Kempe, and Malkin.
His biggest clients all re-signed early instead of pushing timelines to the last minute...Pasternak, Barzal, Hamilton, and Rielly.
A lot of his other fringe(ish) or lower-tier player clients are on short-term (1-2 year) deals like Fabbro, Maata, Kerfoot, Grundstrom, Johansson, Lauko, and Yamamoto.
At the end of the day, Barry doesn't facilitate a deal if his client doesn't say yes. There's no one to blame for misplaying the hand other than Kylington. If Kylington wants to march by the beat of his own drum, that's cool. I don't blame Conroy or Edwards for closing the door after the lack of respect shown here.
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Barnburner suggested that it very likely could be Kylington's agent giving him this advice, but JP Barry's client list doesn't suggest a history of trying to squeeze teams on contracts.
A lot of Barry's bigger clients are on good value deals...Backlund, Myers, Larsson, Forsberg, Kempe, and Malkin.
His biggest clients all re-signed early instead of pushing timelines to the last minute...Pasternak, Barzal, Hamilton, and Rielly.
A lot of his other fringe(ish) or lower-tier player clients are on short-term (1-2 year) deals like Fabbro, Maata, Kerfoot, Grundstrom, Johansson, Lauko, and Yamamoto.
At the end of the day, Barry doesn't facilitate a deal if his client doesn't say yes. There's no one to blame for misplaying the hand other than Kylington. If Kylington wants to march by the beat of his own drum, that's cool. I don't blame Conroy or Edwards for closing the door after the lack of respect shown here.
These are great points, and not to nitpick, but didn’t Pastrnak decide to play through the final season of his deal before deciding to extend? Just wondering how you’re thinking that is “re-signing early”.
To me it's still weird...if you aligned on the $$ then aligning on term should have been easy if it was 1 or 2 years.
In the end though I do get why the Flames would be hesitant to go beyond 1 year....but if 2 years keeps the asset then I would have done that. And vice versa for Kylington, I don't get why you'd risk the scenario you're in now to try to push for a second year.
Seems completely avoidable overall.
Zero reason for the Flames to go 2 years and it isnt much of an asset. At 2x3 it might be a negative asset
These are great points, and not to nitpick, but didn’t Pastrnak decide to play through the final season of his deal before deciding to extend? Just wondering how you’re thinking that is “re-signing early”.
Pasta signed on March 2nd. The 2022-23 regular season was still in progress and it was four months before contract expiry. I'd consider that re-signing early.
