COVID-19 Vaccine Talk, 2nd Dose

[calgarygeologist]

Has anyone seen any info on what the procurement of the pediatric vaccine looks like right now? Does Canada already have a stockpile of the kid's vaccine? If not, how quickly will shipments arrive in Canada?

[Ryan Coke]

I read that we have several million doses on the way shortly, but I didn’t see a specific date of availability.

[Knut]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1461715339901767687

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Has anyone seen any info on what the procurement of the pediatric vaccine looks like right now? Does Canada already have a stockpile of the kid's vaccine? If not, how quickly will shipments arrive in Canada?

I have heard Canada will be receiving the doses early next week and the provinces shortly thereafter. Given these timelines, I'm guessing most appointments won't be available until the week of November 29th since it will be an AHS lead program and not pharmacy based and slower to get moving.

Very interested to see what the uptake will be like. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the initial surge amounts to only 30% of this demographic with an upper level of 60% achieved when all is said and done.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I have heard Canada will be receiving the doses early next week and the provinces shortly thereafter. Given these timelines, I'm guessing most appointments won't be available until the week of November 29th since it will be an AHS lead program and not pharmacy based and slower to get moving.

Very interested to see what the uptake will be like. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the initial surge amounts to only 30% of this demographic with an upper level of 60% achieved when all is said and done.

Why would children be vaccinated at so much lower a rate than adults? Do parents not think their kids should deserve the same protection they themselves have taken? I would hope vaccination levels reach the same level as adults.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why would children be vaccinated at so much lower a rate than adults? Do parents not think their kids should deserve the same protection they themselves have taken? I would hope vaccination levels reach the same level as adults.

I know of lots of people that are vaccinated themselves and are waiting on their kids for data from the US to come out. Also, the reality is that COVID is low risk to kids and they are fearful of Myocarditis. The difference between getting Covid and getting myocarditis vs. intentionally giving your kid a shot and it leads to Myocarditis is big in the minds of already worried parents even if the relative risk is much lower.

It is going to take some good education here from Doctors, pediatricians and the general public.

Realistically, if you can get to 50% uptake it will be great.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Knut

I know of lots of people that are vaccinated themselves and are waiting on their kids for data from the US to come out. Also, the reality is that COVID is low risk to kids and they are fearful of Myocarditis. The difference between getting Covid and getting myocarditis vs. intentionally giving your kid a shot and it leads to Myocarditis is big in the minds of already worried parents even if the relative risk is much lower.



It is going to take some good education here from Doctors, pediatricians and the general public.



Realistically, if you can get to 50% uptake it will be great.

I've heard the same thing from some parents. So in other words dumb, or rather uninformed, people that get too much of their "research" from social media.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Knut

I know of lots of people that are vaccinated themselves and are waiting on their kids for data from the US to come out. Also, the reality is that COVID is low risk to kids and they are fearful of Myocarditis. The difference between getting Covid and getting myocarditis vs. intentionally giving your kid a shot and it leads to Myocarditis is big in the minds of already worried parents even if the relative risk is much lower.

It is going to take some good education here from Doctors, pediatricians and the general public.

Realistically, if you can get to 50% uptake it will be great.

Isn't the risk of getting myocarditis from covid much higher than the risk of getting myocarditis from the vaccine?

[Fuzz]

The benefit of immunization still far outweighs the risks of COVID-19 vaccination, including in adolescents and young adults. The risk of cardiac complications, including myocarditis, has been shown to be substantially increased following COVID-19 infection, and it is higher following infection than after vaccination.

https://www.alberta.ca/assets/docume...wing-covid.pdf


So it sounds like if you are afraid of myocarditis, you'd be the first one in line.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why would children be vaccinated at so much lower a rate than adults? Do parents not think their kids should deserve the same protection they themselves have taken? I would hope vaccination levels reach the same level as adults.

My gut feeling is the update will certainly be lower than for the adult population and possibly smaller than for the 12-18 population, at least to start. What is the comparison between 12-18 vs adults as far a uptake in Canada has gone? I would expect similar or possibly slightly less. People do view risk for their children differently than for themselves.

[Knut]

^^ Yes. I am getting my kids done ASAP. All I am saying is that there is going to have to be a lot of education done to move the needle past 50% for kid shots. As as parent in the trenches right now there is a lot of misinformation and fear right now.

Let's say you a worried mom. You have a Chiropractor and an anti-vax Nurse among your circle of friends. You are from a Rural area of Saskatchewan. All the people in your circle are feeding you misinformation about the shot.

I bet you uptake in rural areas will be like 20-30%. NE Calgary, probably 90%. Affluent white neighborhoods closer to 50%.

Another factor. You getting the shot yourself is only putting you ever so slightly at risk for a complication. You giving your kid the same shot is giving your child that same slight risk. It is a different equation for some and causes a lot of Anxiety.

It is not a "that person is stupid" thing. There are a lot of people without the tools to look at this critically. It is a failure of our education system. It is going to take a lot of work to move the needle here.

[FireFly]

My husband who only got the shot to appease his work is not going to allow our 6 year old to get the shot... At least not yet. Definitely waiting on more information. We follow the "two yes, one no" rule in our household in regards to our kids. We either both need to agree or it doesn't happen.

My 6 year old cannot make the decision on her own, it's up to us. Regardless of how safe and effective these vaccinations have proven to be for now, there cannot have been any long term studies because it hasn't been around long term. Other vaccinations which have been around long term, have also been modified repeatedly after their initial versions. Anyone have a polio shot scar? I don't but my mom does. Vaccines become safer the more information we have. We've had mRNA vaccines now for less than two years. There just is not enough data for him to feel comfortable yet.

I'm sure you've heard enough commercials "If you or someone you loved has ever taken X drug, you may be entitled to compensation." Well, we don't want that to be our kids in 20 years because of something we made them do.

[Knut]

^actually you can empower kids that age to be part of the decision. We did with our kids.

When is there enough information though ? One year? 5 years ?

This not a drug they take every day for a decade. It is as one off that is cleared from the body almost immediately.

[Amethyst]

I also think the uptake in the 5-11 year old group will be lower, for many of the reasons Knut mentioned. I have a lot of contact with people who have children in this group for work and a lot of those who easily took the vaccine themselves, are hesitant about making that decision for their children.

To be fair, a lot are also ready to be first in line.

Calling those who aren't ready stupid will not change their minds. I understand that it's frustrating, but when people have constantly heard that kids are at a lower risk from covid, they are going to worry about giving their child something new.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Knut

^actually you can empower kids that age to be part of the decision. We did with our kids.

When is there enough information though ? One year? 5 years ?

This not a drug they take every day for a decade. It is as one off that is cleared from the body almost immediately.

Yeah, I have had the discussion with her and she would get it done if it meant she could go back to normal... thankfully she is allowed to live a normal life regardless. She's more wanting her sister (half-sister who lives in Ontario with her anti-vaxx mother,) to get the shot so she can come visit. However, she's 6. She knows nothing about the immune system AT ALL, but does know that she HATES needles. Not sure how much empowerment she should have at that age. I certainly don't empower her to make decisions regarding candy intake and bedtime because even though she knows she's cranky in the morning when she doesn't get enough sleep, she would still rather stay up late reading and eating chocolate.



I have no idea when there's enough information. I'm certain we'll have this discussion again when the permission slip comes so she can get the shot in school as I'm sure that's just a few weeks away.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Regardless of how safe and effective these vaccinations have proven to be for now, there cannot have been any long term studies because it hasn't been around long term. Other vaccinations which have been around long term, have also been modified repeatedly after their initial versions. Anyone have a polio shot scar? I don't but my mom does. Vaccines become safer the more information we have. We've had mRNA vaccines now for less than two years. There just is not enough data for him to feel comfortable yet.

No she doesn't (unless she was injured from the vaccine for some reason). The only vaccines that leave scars are the BCG (to prevent Tuberculosis) and smallpox vaccines because of how they're administered. The various polio vaccines are essentially the same as they were when they were introduced in the 50s, as are most vaccines; there's no reason to change an already safe and effective vaccine.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by opendoor

No she doesn't (unless she was injured from the vaccine for some reason). The only vaccines that leave scars are the BCG (to prevent Tuberculosis) and smallpox vaccines because of how they're administered. The various polio vaccines are essentially the same as they were when they were introduced in the 50s, as are most vaccines; there's no reason to change an already safe and effective vaccine.

Pardon me, you're right. Not polio.



Regardless "essentially" the same means there have been changes. There have been changes in the vaccines and vaccination schedule since my oldest was born in 2015 to what my youngest has received since she was born in 2020. Even if they are 'essentially' the same and she is getting the same protections, there have been changes.

[getbak]

Yeah, people with the scar would have had the smallpox vaccine. It was phased out in the early-70s in Canada. I was born in 1973 and don't have a scar (didn't get the shot), but my older sisters, who were born in the early-mid 60s, all have the scar.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by FireFly

My husband who only got the shot to appease his work is not going to allow our 6 year old to get the shot... At least not yet. Definitely waiting on more information. We follow the "two yes, one no" rule in our household in regards to our kids. We either both need to agree or it doesn't happen.

My 6 year old cannot make the decision on her own, it's up to us. Regardless of how safe and effective these vaccinations have proven to be for now, there cannot have been any long term studies because it hasn't been around long term. Other vaccinations which have been around long term, have also been modified repeatedly after their initial versions. Anyone have a polio shot scar? I don't but my mom does. Vaccines become safer the more information we have. We've had mRNA vaccines now for less than two years. There just is not enough data for him to feel comfortable yet.

I'm sure you've heard enough commercials "If you or someone you loved has ever taken X drug, you may be entitled to compensation." Well, we don't want that to be our kids in 20 years because of something we made them do.

I'm just curious if he has indicated at what point it would be ok. What information will have him say "ok, now it's safe enough"?


Is there any legitimate concern from the scientific community that their could be long term issues? From what I've read, all evidence of it is gone from your system within weeks. The only evidence is a trained immune system, which is something vaccines have done for decades.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm just curious if he has indicated at what point it would be ok. What information will have him say "ok, now it's safe enough"?


Is there any legitimate concern from the scientific community that their could be long term issues? From what I've read, all evidence of it is gone from your system within weeks. The only evidence is a trained immune system, which is something vaccines have done for decades.

I'd bet that for people like this there will never be enough information, or proof of safety. It's just an excuse so that they can continue believing the nonsense they believe. If one thing is proven contrary to their beliefs they will simply jump to the next conspiracy theory.