[Signing] Flames sign Chris Tanev (4 years, $4.5 million AAV)

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by united

Some data viz spam.

Hockey Viz AKA Micah McCurdy
This chart shows the teammate-isolated impact a player has on 5v5 offence and defence, where the more positive the offence number is the better, and the more negative the defence number is the better.

Look at the three-year defensive-zone trend. This is is why many are worried Tanev is already in decline.

Spoiler!

JFresh AKA Jack Fraser

Well done visuals demonstrating competency in various categories expressed in various ways.

Spoiler!

These are the two that worry me.

Tanev WAS a top end shutdown d-man for a long time of his Career and if we were getting Chris Tanev 4 years ago that would have been perfect. But now we are already getting the guy that’s on the downside for 4 more years.

Both of these sites already have him as being a negative impact in the defensive zone last season after a downward trend for about 3 seasons. I truly hope that Treliving and the management team are right and that he can reverse the trend, but for a guy with his injury history and the mileage on body that’s going to a tough move.

And then on top of that we laid a big premium in term and $$$ due to the lack of RH shots left on the market and since we needed to pay more to poach him from a rival where he likely wanted to spend his career.

I honestly hope that I have to have these posts get pulled up in the future about how I was so wrong, and he’s great for even just two years of this deal, but I’m not optimistic.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I liked Brodie but he was prone to gaffes and his offensive upside never quite materialized. I was always concerned with his play away from Gio.

I think Tanev is an adequate replacement for either Brodie or Hamonic.

I’m actually surprised at how much people are pining for Brodie considering he was frequently a source of frustration due to his repeated defensive errors.

But now that he’s gone it’s like he was some sort of Pronger/Neidermeyer clone.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Fair enough. But they aren’t just going to throw him in the deep end and say “be Brodie”.

Brodie touched the puck a LOT.

Maybe they should.

the perennially good teams and coaches aren't afraid to sink or swim with their top prospects in elevates roles.

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Lol so much anger for a good dman. Tre was going to sign a stay in his own End type of dman who can play a lot of minutes. Tre goes out and get a number one goalie then signs ONE veteran dman and the wrath of CP follows. I like Tanev signing and I’m on cloud 9 on signing Markström! Tre still needs to shake up the forwards but that will come soon I’m sure.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I liked Brodie but he was prone to gaffes and his offensive upside never quite materialized. I was always concerned with his play away from Gio.

I think Tanev is an adequate replacement for either Brodie or Hamonic.

I’m actually surprised at how much people are pining for Brodie considering he was frequently a source of frustration due to his repeated defensive errors.

But now that he’s gone it’s like he was some sort of Pronger/Neidermeyer clone.

All the fancy stats point to Brodie as a very good shot suppressing defenseman.

So if a positive possession, shot suppressing guy isn’t good defensively, and the analytically poor physical D aren’t good defensively, who is?

He wouldn’t have been given all the assignments he was given over the last seven years if he was bad defensively.

[Bingo]

My thoughts ...

First off I totally get why people are worried about a Brouwer situation. I can see that comparison for sure.

I have the advantage of having a conversation withy my 18 year old on the way out to the cabin on what to do with Brodie off the market, and we both felt Tanev was the guy to go get. I had it at two years and maybe as high as 4.5m because there was a musical chair thing going on around the league and the Flames had so many dmen walk away in free agency.

So the four years worry me for sure, but so too would Barrie at any term because he's so poor defensively. The Flames needed a right side, right shot guy that gives a crap about his own end and they found him.

Hopefully some of those metrics don't 100% adjust for a team that is a tire fire in their own zone, that's what I'm clinging too.

Beyond that I think of what else they would have done. Keeps coming back to a trade.

So they have Markstrom and six years instead of say Kuemper and two years, plus they have Zary and Boltman and Poirier.

Hopefully it's Tanev and four years and say Dube and next year's second still in the fold instead of player X and those assets missing.

The Flames are better for sure, and the targets make sense to me. Just hope they don't get Brouwer'd on this contract.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

All the fancy stats point to Brodie as a very good shot suppressing defenseman.

So if a positive possession, shot suppressing guy isn’t good defensively, and the analytically poor physical D aren’t good defensively, who is?

He wouldn’t have been given all the assignments he was given over the last seven years if he was bad defensively.

What does shot suppression have to do with brain farts and bad decision making?

This is what happens when you value advanced stats over actually watching.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Maybe they should.

the perennially good teams and coaches aren't afraid to sink or swim with their top prospects in elevates roles.

I’m not here to slag off Valimaki. I have almost no recollection of him as a Flame. He had one kinda-nice shifty dangle to set up a goal, and beyond that, I saw a guy trying to adapt to the NHL.

He hasn’t had any chance to get better in the time since his first knee injury.

He might come back and be Chabot, I don’t know.

[cannon7]

At least Treliving didn't give up a first and two second round picks this time.

[Bonded]

I kind of feel like Treliving panicked after missing out on Brodie.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

What does shot suppression have to do with brain farts and bad decision making?

This is what happens when you value advanced stats over watching

can we ban "brain farts"?

Cringiest compound word on Calgarypuck. By far.

To answer your question - defensemen who make a lot of controlled outlet passes will have turnovers that end up in the back of the net. This is not because they have "brain farts" or "bad decision making" but because there are calculated risks in that style of play.

Of course, the human mind is prone to remember goal events. It's human nature to have a bias towards and against things which result in large emotional swings. If in 100 shifts a player has 99 clean exits and one pass picked up off the middle, you will not remember the 99 clean exits. You will only remember the goal against. and visually, it's easier to pin the blame on the one player who passed up the middle.

The good far outweighs the bad. Us humans aren't good at isolating the emotional events from all the events.

[BagoPucks]

I like the direction of going with Tanev instead of Barrie. Term and dollars are not outrageous for UFA opening days.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

can we ban "brain farts"?

Cringiest compound word on Calgarypuck. By far.

To answer your question - defensemen who make a lot of controlles outlet passes will have turnovers that end up in the back of the net. This is not because they have "brain farts" or "bad decision making" but because there are calculated risks in that style of play.

Of course, the human mind is prone to remember goal events. It's human nature to have a bias towards and against things which result in large emotional swings. If in 100 shifts a player has 99 clean exits and one pass picked up off the middle, you will not remember the 99 clean exits. You will only remember the goal against.

The good far outweighs the bad. Us humans aren't good at isolating the emotional events from all the events.

None of this is correct. Nor does it address any of the issues with Brodie.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

None of this is correct. Nor does it address any of the issues with Brodie.

The issues in your head, you mean.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

What does shot suppression have to do with brain farts and bad decision making?

This is what happens when you value advanced stats over actually watching.

Or it’s important to draw a distinction between people who are bad at their jobs vs people who have incredibly difficult ones.

They asked Andersson to do what Brodie did, and he couldn’t.

They didn’t even bother trying Hanifin in the role.

TJ was and is a quality player. He’s gone, and that’s fine. I’m not lamenting his loss, his absence creates an opportunity for any of our young D to seize.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

can we ban "brain farts"?

Can we stop telling people what words to use? People have unique vocabularies, as long as it isn't insulting someone, who gives a ####? Stop trying to control people through their language, we get enough of it from special interest groups.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Who said he wasn’t a quality player?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Gaudreau is a Ninja

Lol so much anger for a good dman. Tre was going to sign a stay in his own End type of dman who can play a lot of minutes. Tre goes out and get a number one goalie then signs ONE veteran dman and the wrath of CP follows. I like Tanev signing and I’m on cloud 9 on signing Markström! Tre still needs to shake up the forwards but that will come soon I’m sure.

This is where I am at too, I don't think defense is too much of a worry with the guys we have got. I think the bigger concern is the top 6 is not really structured for playoff type hockey. Paying too many guys too much who don't bring more of what we need. Then you have those injuries to Chucky, I hope that will not be an issue going forward because of what he brings.

[neo45]

This contract is really bad

The optics of our best defensemen last year signing the same deal for just slightly more on the same day elsewhere makes this even worse

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Lol Calgary puck never change! Tre signed Tanev to 4 years instead of 3 and 4.5 million instead of 4. Why bother playing next season it’s already over for the Flames. Not me! About time we got a quality defensive defence man and a finally
a true number one goalie. When Tre adds to our top six forwards I’m going to be jumping for joy. I already can’t wait for the start of next season! Go Flames Go!