2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

If we can get kotkaniemi for hanifin I'm all over it. I'm pretty meh on the idea of domi for hanifin... just don't see domi cracking into our top 6 as is.

I don’t know
Based on my limited observations, kotkaniemi looks like a bust
Did you see his AHL stat line? Yeesh

[Geeoff]

Do you guys forget we have several UFA defensemen?

Is the plan to trade Hanifin and run only 3 top 4 defensemen in order to game the system for the expansion draft LOL. We'll miss the playoffs but hey at least we didn't give a good D to Seattle...

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I don’t know
Based on my limited observations, kotkaniemi looks like a bust
Did you see his AHL stat line? Yeesh

He’s 19. Awfully early to start speculating whether he’s a bust or not.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Do you guys forget we have several UFA defensemen?

Is the plan to trade Hanifin and run only 3 top 4 defensemen in order to game the system for the expansion draft LOL. We'll miss the playoffs but hey at least we didn't give a good D to Seattle...

You know, the Flames could acquire other defence men. It’s a radical thought, but it is possible.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Do you guys forget we have several UFA defensemen?

Is the plan to trade Hanifin and run only 3 top 4 defensemen in order to game the system for the expansion draft LOL. We'll miss the playoffs but hey at least we didn't give a good D to Seattle...

Giordano - Brodie
Valimaki - Andersson

Pretty dang strong top four. It features the best pairing in the NHL, and two young excellent defenders - who make take a lump or two, but I’d bet on them any day.

Top that off with Kylington and a bargain UFA sounds pretty good to me.

The days of overpaying for veteran bottom 2 defenceman should be behind us. Trust the youth that has earned the opportunity. Kylington deserves to be an every day defenceman - that pushes Valimaki to the 2nd pairing, which might be a bit much but not a huge reach.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

I would imagine they would have to.
Unless there is stipulations these are semi legal contracts. Then again the league can allow them to be bought out, so what do I know.

They are legal contracts.

The league can only change the rule around buyouts with the agreement of the players association.


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[Toonage]

^^ The problem with pencilling in Valimaki on the 2nd pair is that he has yet to prove he can stay healthy for a extended stretch of time. Therefore its entirely possible in the above scenario that Kylington has to play on that 2nd pairing which wouldn't necessarily be ideal.

[2ArmBands]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Giordano - Brodie
Valimaki - Andersson

Pretty dang strong top four. It features the best pairing in the NHL, and two young excellent defenders - who make take a lump or two, but I’d bet on them any day.

Top that off with Kylington and a bargain UFA sounds pretty good to me.

The days of overpaying for veteran bottom 2 defenceman should be behind us. Trust the youth that has earned the opportunity. Kylington deserves to be an every day defenceman - that pushes Valimaki to the 2nd pairing, which might be a bit much but not a huge reach.

I don’t know... while I think Valimaki has every tool and ability to be a top tier defenceman in the NHL I’m not ready to gamble a season on him. His injury situations have to be of concern.

For Kylington, his decision making is awful. He still has lots of time but if it wasn’t for his skating I’m not sure he pans out. I think we need to be a lot deeper than what you suggest.

[ComixZone]

I think that train of thought is too conservative from a roster management perspective.

Year after year this team has invested big cash in depth on defencemen and what has it got us? Absolutely nowhere. This team has had no success.

Meanwhile, we see unproven defenders step up every year on other teams and earn bigger paydays either with their current teams or move on for bigger paydays elsewhere.

Valimaki goes down for part of the year? Lerby, Mackey, Kylington and Giordano have to step up.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Giordano - Brodie
Valimaki - Andersson

Pretty dang strong top four. It features the best pairing in the NHL, and two young excellent defenders - who make take a lump or two, but I’d bet on them any day.

Top that off with Kylington and a bargain UFA sounds pretty good to me.

The days of overpaying for veteran bottom 2 defenceman should be behind us. Trust the youth that has earned the opportunity. Kylington deserves to be an every day defenceman - that pushes Valimaki to the 2nd pairing, which might be a bit much but not a huge reach.

Putting Valimaki straight in a top 4 role is a mistake. Kylington still has to show he is an everyday dman. I personally think he can be but you can’t just gift it to him. Really think flames should be trying to re-sign Forbert for bottom pairing.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Putting Valimaki straight in a top 4 role is a mistake. Kylington still has to show he is an everyday dman. I personally think he can be but you can’t just gift it to him. Really think flames should be trying to re-sign Forbert for bottom pairing.

I don’t think spreading money into the bottom pairing is something this team should do anymore. Trust more youth, stop spending on depth players.

Forbort want a 1 year, $1M contract to earn a bigger payday? Sure, I’m into it.

I’m just questioning the train of thought that has seen us continually spending into positions that don’t drive the team forward. Start deploying cheaper, younger players that have similar impacts - you just have to trust them, coach them, and realize that playing mistake free hockey isn’t the goal - winning the game is, and mistakes happen.

[Roof-Daddy]

I agree with ComixZone

I'm tired of having a D that makes big money 1 thru 5 or 6 and then watching and wondering why the D is so "meh".

Sign a couple cheap vets for depth and let them battle with the kids.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Late to this and been reading about this idea of "Trade Johnny" sign Hall. At least yours somehow keeps both.

Did I miss the part where Halls abysmal injury record was discussed? Or the fact that he has 1 single 90 point season and never over 70 due to injuries usually? I love the way the guy skates and plays (especially his skating!) but I don't know how much value he'sd bring this team if he's a part time player.

Well, Hall's last 5 seasons were as follows:

82
72
76
33
65

That last one is this year and he was on pace to play 77 before the season was canceled.

Doesn't seem that bad to me. Just one year where he missed significant time.

[ComixZone]

Assume these are the signings when the players are used:

Hall (7 years, 8M per)
Holtby (1 year, 2.75M on a show-me contract that he may want)
Brodie (6 years, 4.55M per)
Mangiapane (2 years, 2M per)
Jankowski (1 year, 1.75M)

For comparison sake, which roster do you take:

Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.375) - Lindholm (4.85)
Mangiapane (2) - Backlund (5.35) - Tkachuk (7)
Hall (8) - Bennett (2.55) - Dube (.778)
Lucic (5.25) - Ryan (3.125) - Phillips (.733)
13th forward

Giordano (6.75) - Brodie (4.55)
Valiamki (.894) - Andersson (4.55)
Kylington (.800) - 6th defenceman
7th defenceman


Rittich (2.75)
Holtby (2.75)

$3,027,501 in cap-space ($457,500 potential bonuses owed) + the assets gained from trading Hanifin (use Hamonic's deal as the market setter, so 1st + 2nd + 2nd)

Vs.

Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.375) - Lindholm (4.85)
Mangiapane (2) - Backlund (5.35) - Tkachuk (7)
Lucic (5.25) - Ryan (3.125) - Phillips (.733)
Dube (.778) - Jankowski (1.75) - Bennett (2.55)
13th forward


Giordano (6.75) - Brodie (4.55)
Hanifin (4.95) - Andersson (4.55)
Valiamki (.894) - 6th defenceman
Kylington (.800)

Rittich (2.75)
Holtby (2.75)

$4,327,501 in cap-space ($457,500 potential bonuses owed)

I take that first roster (and the assets gained) every day. If you want to trade Gaudreau (say 1st + 1st + 2nd) and sign Hall, I still take the first roster for a year and then say trade Gaudreau after that for a small fortune.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Assume these are the signings when the players are used:

Hall (7 years, 8M per)
Holtby (1 year, 2.75M on a show-me contract that he may want)
Brodie (6 years, 4.55M per)
Mangiapane (2 years, 2M per)
Jankowski (1 year, 1.75M)

For comparison sake, which roster do you take:

Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.375) - Lindholm (4.85)
Mangiapane (2) - Backlund (5.35) - Tkachuk (7)
Hall (8) - Bennett (2.55) - Dube (.778)
Lucic (5.25) - Ryan (3.125) - Phillips (.733)
13th forward

Giordano (6.75) - Brodie (4.55)
Valimaki (.894) - Andersson (4.55)
Kylington (.800) - 6th defenceman
7th defenceman


Rittich (2.75)
Holtby (2.75)

$3,027,501 in cap-space ($457,500 potential bonuses owed) + the assets gained from trading Hanifin (use Hamonic's deal as the market setter, so 1st + 2nd + 2nd)

Vs.

Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.375) - Lindholm (4.85)
Mangiapane (2) - Backlund (5.35) - Tkachuk (7)
Lucic (5.25) - Ryan (3.125) - Phillips (.733)
Dube (.778) - Jankowski (1.75) - Bennett (2.55)
13th forward


Giordano (6.75) - Brodie (4.55)
Hanifin (4.95) - Andersson (4.55)
Valimaki (.894) - 6th defenceman
Kylington (.800)

Rittich (2.75)
Holtby (2.75)

$4,327,501 in cap-space ($457,500 potential bonuses owed)

I take that first roster (and the assets gained) every day. If you want to trade Gaudreau (say 1st + 1st + 2nd) and sign Hall, I still take the first roster for a year and then say trade Gaudreau after that for a small fortune.

Is the first example assuming we trade Hanifin for nothing? Obviously its a better lineup on offence but the defence is kinda scary when you are counting on a young guy with 24 NHL games who just missed an entire season due to injury to play consistent top four.

In the first scenario I'd rather see Forbort signed decently cheap to play with Gio even if its his off side, let Brodie move on, keep Hanifin
(because it didn't seem like we got anything for him anyways) then role with this.

Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.375) - Lindholm (4.85)
Mangiapane (2) - Backlund (5.35) - Tkachuk (7)
Hall (8) - Bennett (2.55) - Dube (.778)
Lucic (5.25) - Ryan (3.125) - Phillips (.733)
13th forward

Giordano (6.75) - Forbort (2.55)
Hanifin (4.95) - Andersson (4.55)
Valiamki (.894) - Kylington (.800)
7th defenceman


Rittich (2.75)
Holtby (2.75) (or Talbot again)

That cap should be pretty close to working out

Or we can trade Gaudreau and keep Brodie for Gio's partner with something like this:

Hall (8) - Monahan (6.375) - Lindholm (4.85)
Mangiapane (2) - Backlund (5.35) - Tkachuk (7)
Dube (.778) - Bennett (2.55) - Reinhart (5.35)
Lucic (5.25) - Ryan (3.125) - Cozens (.900 ish)
13th forward

Giordano (6.75) - Brodie (4.55)
Hanifin (4.95) - Andersson (4.55)
Valiamki (.894) - Kylington (.800)
7th defenceman

This keeps us competitve, with maybe even a better offence while giving Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington, Bennett, Dube, Cozens the shelter they need but also the necessary room to grow.

Also by giving Bennett Dube and Reinhart a "run wild" type of line for them to gain confidence and letting Cozens work with Ryan that gives us essentially 4 potential guys who might be able to bump Backlund down in the next couple years if he loses a step.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

Is the first example assuming we trade Hanifin for nothing? Obviously its a better lineup on offence but the defence is kinda scary when you are counting on a young guy with 24 NHL games who just missed an entire season due to injury to play consistent top four.

In the first scenario I'd rather see Forbort signed decently cheap to play with Gio even if its his off side, let Brodie move on, keep Hanifin
(because it didn't seem like we got anything for him anyways) then role with this.

Gaudreau (6.75) - Monahan (6.375) - Lindholm (4.85)
Mangiapane (2) - Backlund (5.35) - Tkachuk (7)
Hall (8) - Bennett (2.55) - Dube (.778)
Lucic (5.25) - Ryan (3.125) - Phillips (.733)
13th forward

Giordano (6.75) - Forbort (2.55)
Hanifin (4.95) - Andersson (4.55)
Valiamki (.894) - Kylington (.800)
7th defenceman


Rittich (2.75)
Holtby (2.75) (or Talbot again)

That cap should be pretty close to working out

Or we can trade Gaudreau and keep Brodie for Gio's partner with something like this:

Hall (8) - Monahan (6.375) - Lindholm (4.85)
Mangiapane (2) - Backlund (5.35) - Tkachuk (7)
Dube (.778) - Bennett (2.55) - Reinhart (5.35)
Lucic (5.25) - Ryan (3.125) - Cozens (.900 ish)
13th forward

Giordano (6.75) - Brodie (4.55)
Hanifin (4.95) - Andersson (4.55)
Valiamki (.894) - Kylington (.800)
7th defenceman

This keeps us competitve, with maybe even a better offence while giving Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington, Bennett, Dube, Cozens the shelter they need but also the necessary room to grow.

Also by giving Bennett Dube and Reinhart a "run wild" type of line for them to gain confidence and letting Cozens work with Ryan that gives us essentially 4 potential guys who might be able to bump Backlund down in the next couple years if he loses a step.

Lmao. Hall is not signing here to play on the third line with plugs like Bennett.

[Lanny_McDonald]

You go out and get Hall at $8M a season (which is unlikely) and then saddle him with Sam Bennett and Dillon Dube? That's one way to make sure you don't attract high profile free agents in the future. Hall's numbers would take a beating. That line would also be a feast for the opposition as Dube is the only one on that line that can spell defense and has any idea what it means.

If the Flames sign Hall it is to be a top LW and most likely a replacement for Gaudreau. Johnny should be traded to improve the team, and that means finding some help on RW, another top six center, pushing Backlund down where he belongs, and hopefully another defenseman with potential. Fill the holes that matter and do so from strength. Don't pull another boner like the Flames did when they signed Bouwmeester. Deal from strength immediately and plug holes.

One last point, Phillips doesn't get a sniff as long as Gaudreau is on the team. You can only have so many small players on a team at any given time, and the counting shall be one. Until Gaudreau moves on, Phillips is in the minors. Flames play small and easy as it is and adding another tiny player is a bad move.

[TheScorpion]

Well re: Phillips, I don't think it's quite that black and white. For one, he's already gotten a sniff. He was called up earlier this year. Two, the Flames shouldn't be operating under a "size quota." If Phillips looks like an impact player in camp, they should absolutely put him into the lineup over replacement-level guys like Tobi Rieder.

[Lanny_McDonald]

How many shifts did Phillips get again? Don't mistake Treliving's "reward call-ups" as getting a sniff. There's a difference between getting a call up to come skate in practice, eat some pop corn, and earn a nice little bonus pay, and getting an actual call up where you suit up and get some playing time.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Late to this and been reading about this idea of "Trade Johnny" sign Hall. At least yours somehow keeps both...

Which makes no sense at all. This is not my own preference, but I can see a situation in which Hall and Gaudreau spend a season together in Calgary. However, I don't see any good reason to keep Gaudreau beyond 2021. Since the expansion draft will not occur until next summer, then there is no reason to protect Gaudreau since he should he long gone by then.

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