[News] Bill Peters resigns as head coach. No longer part of Flames org. Ward interim HC

[ForeverFlameFan]

Why do I even bother coming back to this thread.

I keep clicking on it already knowing that I'll hate it.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Fair enough. I'm referring to the posters who are saying there's no comparison between dressing up in black face and blurting out the N word. That may be true in Canada.

It’s not that it isn’t comparable, it is that giving it equivalency is completely false and without any consideration of the motive of the individual committing the act makes it moronically absurd.

What Trudeau did was dumb and clueless but not malicious. If any blackface is so important to you why don’t you crusade after Robert Downey Jr. for his role in Tropic Thunder, or boycott Ironman movies?

For further context, the cultural appropriation of blackface has it’s roots in Minstrel Shows.

These were burlesque or comedy shows that used white people in blackface to appropriate black people as lazy or dim-witted. That’s why it is repulsive and racist. Coming into context with this act is clueless, dumb, and offensive. However, the repugnance of minstrel shows is not anywhere close to what Trudeau was doing.

[getbak]

Francis issues a statement (and throws his former boss under the bus).



On Wednesday night, Peter Karmanos claimed he would have fired Peters immediately if he had been told about the incident(s) in Carolina: https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...e-allegations/

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by nobles_point

What Trudeau did was dumb and clueless but not malicious. If any blackface is so important to you why don’t you crusade after Robert Downey Jr. for his role in Tropic Thunder, or boycott Ironman movies?

Because I'm not easily offended.

Originally Posted by nobles_point

For further context, the cultural appropriation of blackface has it’s roots in Minstrel Shows.

These were burlesque or comedy shows that used white people in blackface to appropriate black people as lazy or dim-witted. That’s why it is repulsive and racist. Coming into context with this act is clueless, dumb, and offensive. However, the repugnance of minstrel shows is not anywhere close to what Trudeau was doing.

I provided a link to give context to why black face is considered racist a few pages back.

It's fine if you want to claim Trudeau's black face was the most innocent kind of black face. Just hope you're as charitable towards other's mistakes as you are Trudeau. If a highly educated and privileged person like Trudeau can make such a mistake and be forgiven, then maybe we have room to forgive those who don't necessarily align with our political views. Or at the very least step back and recognize our own fallibility and think twice before casting the first stone.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Yup...It's not out of the realm of possibility, he was paid more to resign. His resignation made this issue a lot cleaner and a lot easier for the Flames, and the NHL.

Exactly. The complexities are numerous

The Flames operate in Alberta. Rockford operate in Illinois. If the Flames dismiss Peters, I would imagine they are subject to Alberta labour laws, unless NHL coach contracts specify that labour laws of a particular jurisdiction govern the agreement. I am not sure about that. Labour laws certainly vary widely by province, state, etc. That’s just a minor thing, relatively. Maybe it would even be straight forward.

It is a bigger picture, high visibility issue, involving two socially sensitive topics (racism and abuse of authority), that affects the entire league, and I am confident a league which is image conscious would not want to be in the spotlight on this any longer than it has to be.

Had the Flames dismissed Peters, they would have to take a position as to whether he is dismissed with cause or without cause. One implication is whether or not they have to pay, but that’s absolutely not the bigger picture issue. If they elect to say it is with cause, they are taking a stand that prior conduct constitutes just cause. Maybe establishing or arguing if there should be a statute of limitations on prior conduct. The sides would definitely take opposing positions as to whether Peters words were addressing the music or directed, whether directly or indirectly at Aliu.

I am pretty darn confident neither the Flames nor the NHL want to be involved in any of those battles. It would set a precedent for other leagues and other situations, and would have to be probably pretty fiercely battled, and high visibility. The NHL wants neither that burden nor negative publicity.

If Peters does not resign, the Flames have to take a position and action and justify it, and the league would also potentially have to take action to determine what an appropriate suspension and / or fine may be for conduct that occurred at another time and under another (albeit affiliated) league.

While technically Peters may have “voluntarily resigned”, for practical purposes he absolutely did not voluntarily resign. Treliving would not have been surprised by the resignation of Peters.

There was an assessment of options moving forward. The respective representatives of the Flames, NHL, and Peters worked together, no doubt to choose the cleanest option.

I am sure the Flames were chapped that they are paying a guy not to coach, but this is a matter of picking your battles and paying for the situation to go away.

It is unbelievably naive to think the Flames’ top priority was whether or not to pay Bill

[Strange Brew]

This was all a negotiation that probably went on for a few days. Apparently Peters wanted to be able to say he resigned so he negotiated for that. Kind of a hollow victory as everyone knows what happened. I thought symbolically Flames would want to be able to at least say it was by mutual decision but I guess they just wanted this to go away. Only question is how big was the cheque. I’m guessing he got paid everything he was due under his contract.

And now both sides can’t say anything publicly but for Peters I don’t see how that helps too much if the league is going to investigate him and potentially levy discipline, which would be public.

[Shin Pad]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This was all a negotiation that probably went on for a few days. Apparently Peters wanted to be able to say he resigned so he negotiated for that. Kind of a hollow victory as everyone knows what happened. I thought symbolically Flames would want to be able to at least say it was by mutual decision but I guess they just wanted this to go away. Only question is how big was the cheque. I’m guessing he got paid everything he was due under his contract.

And now both sides can’t say anything publicly but for Peters I don’t see how that helps too much if the league is going to investigate him and potentially levy discipline, which would be public.

What can the NHL realistically do to Peters now that he isn't in the NHL anymore? I am genuinely curious.

[Shin Pad]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This was all a negotiation that probably went on for a few days. Apparently Peters wanted to be able to say he resigned so he negotiated for that. Kind of a hollow victory as everyone knows what happened. I thought symbolically Flames would want to be able to at least say it was by mutual decision but I guess they just wanted this to go away. Only question is how big was the cheque. I’m guessing he got paid everything he was due under his contract.

And now both sides can’t say anything publicly but for Peters I don’t see how that helps too much if the league is going to investigate him and potentially levy discipline, which would be public.

What can the NHL realistically do to Peters now that he isn't in the NHL anymore, other than banning him from ever coaching in the league again? I am genuinely curious.

[Shin Pad]

double post

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Shin Pad

What can the NHL realistically do to Peters now that he isn't in the NHL anymore, other than banning him from ever coaching in the league again? I am genuinely curious.

They could also fine him. (They could say they are within their rights to do so)

I expect they won’t though, because they would have to justify it on some grounds, then it would invite a lawsuit, and many of the issues they avoided discussing and taking a position on will have to be discussed.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Shin Pad

What can the NHL realistically do to Peters now that he isn't in the NHL anymore, other than banning him from ever coaching in the league again? I am genuinely curious.

They could suspend him from the NHL.. It would be a symbolic move really but arguably symbols are important. The guy is toxic so a one year suspension has no practical effect on him, but it would give the league a chance to say something.

IMO a lifetime ban would be harsh unless it was coupled with some ability to apply for reinstatement after a period of time.

I would presume the league has this authority to discipline coaches. I don’t really know but certainly coaches have been fined and disciplined in the past.

[Domoic]

Ron Maclean is a horrible person...

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Domoic

Ron Maclean is a horrible person...

Not watching, what’d he do?

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Not watching, what’d he do?

On the HNIC segment that was just on, there was a conversation that he want's everyone have regarding respect, racism, inclusion and diversity within the game. Fairly standard stuff given the event's of the previous few weeks.

Where I think this conversation and where everything has literally gone off the deep end is how everyone now has an opinion and everybody needs to just relax a bit and don't think that everyone is trying to get everybody.

Elliot Friedman had a piece where Ron Francis in essence called the former owner of the Hurricane's a full blown liar. The former owner made the claim he would have fired Peter's in a second given the allegations. Francis says that was a lie and he was made aware.

Than we have Ron going on and on and on about how he doesn't see colour in people's skin and how he doesn't understand certain things due to his "white, male privilege" We than have a roundtable discussion with 4 different sports athletes and personalities who are black and they are discussing their thoughts and opinions on the topics.

The whole segment just seems really really weird. I get it's important to have a discussion and for people to air their opinions on the matter but now we are trying to go onto a different path. It's part of this division and part of this culture we have now where everybody is hyper sensitive about everything and it's leading to our demise.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Domoic

Ron Maclean is a horrible person...

I missed this. What did he say?

[The Big Chill]

Our demise? Wow, that's intense. It was a decent convo about equality. It may have felt forced in a few moments, but the segment was good overall.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Our demise? Wow, that's intense. It was a decent convo about equality. It may have felt forced in a few moments, but the segment was good overall.

Sorry I should clarify. I am not talking about having a conversation about respect in the work place, routing racism out in hockey and the allegations that are being discussed.

It's that we are now at a point where everybody is literally arguing about everything and tearing each other apart. A huge part of this is because of social media. People are literally cheering and routing for everybody to fail and for everything to go to hell for everyone.

Case in point: Bill Peters firing. People were freaking out about the entire situation and couldn't wait for it to happen quick enough. People were furious about the "delay" as people wanted their blood and wanted it quick. In reality we had a serious situation with a ton of balls in the air that needed to be dealt with and it was dealt with in a grand total of 3 full days, wasn't fast enough for some.

Everybody has their opinion about things but on the flip side, if by any chance there is any other changes that relate to the Akim Aliu investigation. Say for example there was confirmation that Peter's did apologize to the team, as he said in his letter, what will the reaction to AKim Aliu be? He is going to be viciously called every name in the book and will create a firestorm for his tweet saying he didn't. People will be out for his head and it will be sad.

I just think we have gotten to a point where everybody want's to prove their point and nobody cares about anything. People furious with the Flames organization, Tre and company and how they should just "roast him and write the chq to get rid of him" Easy for people to say when the issue was what had happened at other employers.

One a recent Fan 960 piece I heard Commie talk about the situation and he was giving it to Peters really really really hard. I get it as its a bad topic and that language has no place in 2009 or 2019. It dawned on me though that he has no issue tweeting about Babcock and saying the filthiest stuff in the world, minus the obvious racial slurs, about him online. So we are rationalizing twitter abuse because somebody doesn't say a rational slur?


The world is messed up

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I used to live in Riverdale, Georgia. You can start there.

In case you don't know, black face was used to mock black people during Jim Crow. I provided a link that goes into more detail. It's not that strange, it's actually quite understandable.

I'm not doubting it would upset people. I'm sure no shortage of people would be coming up to you with precious little patience for whatever gimmick you were running.

You specifically said "see how long you last". I have a hard time seeing where that situation escalates to violence. As soon as they were confronted, the person in blackface would leave.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

Aliu just hired Colin Kaepernick's lawyer - tells me all I need to know

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

Aliu just hired Colin Kaepernick's lawyer - tells me all I need to know

And what is it that you needed to know?