Flames stars Sean Monahan and Johnny Gaudreau stick together - Page 30 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GranteedEV · 08-23-2016, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Um, cough.

MacInnis, Gilmour, Loob, Suter, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Fleury, Mullen, Otto. Vernon... that team was not at all built around Lanny.

TheScorpion · 08-23-2016, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

MacInnis, Gilmour, Loob, Suter, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Fleury, Mullen, Otto... that team was not at all built around Lanny.

He was there first. The team acquired Lanny in 1981, and built the rest of the team around him.

MrMastodonFarm · 08-23-2016, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

He was there first. The team acquired Lanny in 1981, and built the rest of the team around him.

Sure but just because a lamp was the first thing at the construction site doesn't mean the house was built upon it. Winning teams aren't build around wingers and if you have to show Lanny (part time player when won) Lemeuix (a center) or Maurice Richard (60 years ago) you probably don't have a good point.

Teams aren't build around wingers or depth at that position. The '89 Flames team was incredible strength down the middle and at D and that's exactly what the Flames will have to again to win. Bennett, Monahan, Backlund, Jankowski/whoever/whoever and Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton, whoever/whoever/whoever. That's going to be the building blocks of our team.

Guys like Jarome Iginla and Brett Hull are two of the best two ever play the games but ask the Flames or Blues how well it worked building around them.

sun · 08-23-2016, 04:51 PM

What are you coughing about? McDonald only played half of the games in a SCF that took place nearly 30 years ago.

TheScorpion · 08-23-2016, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Sure but just because a lamp was the first thing at the construction site doesn't mean the house was built upon it. Winning teams aren't build around wingers and if you have to show Lanny (part time player when won) Lemeuix (a center) or Maurice Richard (60 years ago) you probably don't have a good point.

Teams aren't build around wingers or depth at that position. The '89 Flames team was incredible strength down the middle and at D and that's exactly what the Flames will have to again to win. Bennett, Monahan, Backlund, Jankowski/whoever/whoever and Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton, whoever/whoever/whoever. That's going to be the building blocks of our team.

Guys like Jarome Iginla and Brett Hull are two of the best two ever play the games but ask the Flames or Blues how well it worked building around them.

Good post.

You're right, I don't have a ton of more recent examples. You build around centres for the most part. I just figured his part that it "never works" to build around a winger was wrong, but I had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for notable occurances proving otherwise.

Guys like St. Louis and Kane are sort of applicable here, but then they had Lecavalier and Toews down the middle.

Cole436 · 08-23-2016, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Oops, wrong URL.

Fixed!

You thought he played wing because of the Canada cup with Gretzky, didn't you?

TheScorpion · 08-23-2016, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole436

You thought he played wing because of the Canada cup with Gretzky, didn't you?

That may have been a factor...

Also just pure recollective ignorance.

theslymonkey · 08-23-2016, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Sure but just because a lamp was the first thing at the construction site doesn't mean the house was built upon it. Winning teams aren't build around wingers and if you have to show Lanny (part time player when won) Lemeuix (a center) or Maurice Richard (60 years ago) you probably don't have a good point.

Teams aren't build around wingers or depth at that position. The '89 Flames team was incredible strength down the middle and at D and that's exactly what the Flames will have to again to win. Bennett, Monahan, Backlund, Jankowski/whoever/whoever and Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton, whoever/whoever/whoever. That's going to be the building blocks of our team.

Guys like Jarome Iginla and Brett Hull are two of the best two ever play the games but ask the Flames or Blues how well it worked building around them.

^^^ Love this quote ^^^

The only team I could come up with that won the Cup in the last 30ish years that wasn't built around centers was the Devils. Unless you consider either Arnott/Gomez a true #1C. But they happened to have the greatest goalie to ever wear pads in net. So that kinda helps

GranteedEV · 08-23-2016, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Good post.

You're right, I don't have a ton of more recent examples. You build around centres for the most part. I just figured his part that it "never works" to build around a winger was wrong, but I had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for notable occurances proving otherwise.

Yeah it`s pretty much a fact that a cup winner will have at least one good centre. Even the 2004 Flames had Conroy who was a perennial Selke candidate whose 82 game scoring pace would have had him in the top 40 of league scoring the same year. A modern talent comparable would be a guy like Ryan O`Rielly or Logan Couture, far from a nobody.

You don`t build around wingers nor goaltenders. They are supplementary pieces to your defensemen and centres. However you need all of the above to actually contend.

However that also doesn`t mean we are building "around" Monahan at present. We are building "around Giordano and Brodie" with the hope that Bennett and/or Monahan become worth building around before they plateau. Gaudreau is the perfect supplementary piece on the wing and ELliott is the perfect supplementary piece at Goal and Backlund is the near-perfect supplementary piece at 3rd line centre (you would like Backlund to be better at PK faceoffs though, that's about it) but our contention hopes rest upon Bennett or Monahan becoming worth building "around" the way Giordano and Brodie are.

doctajones428 · 08-23-2016, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

That's exactly what I meant. What else could I have meant when I said "as of today"?

Please don't put words in my mouth.

"As of today, Gaudreau is as good as Ovechkin" and "Gaudreau is as good as Ovechkin today" are two different sentences with two different implications

TheScorpion · 08-23-2016, 05:16 PM

The 06-07 Ducks were built around Niedermayer/Pronger.
The 10-11 Bruins were built around Chara.
The 02-03/99-00/95-96 Devils were built around Stevens.
The 92-93 Canadiens were built around Roy.

There are other non-centre examples.

Textcritic · 08-23-2016, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

...I just figured his part that it "never works" to build around a winger was wrong, but I had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for notable occurances proving otherwise...

I think that this rather amply demonstrates that Huntingwhale was not wrong: history actually shows that winning teams are constructed from the middle out, and not on the back of scoring wingers.

Textcritic · 08-23-2016, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The 06-07 Ducks were built around Niedermayer/Pronger.
The 10-11 Bruins were built around Chara.
The 02-03/99-00/95-96 Devils were built around Stevens.
The 92-93 Canadiens were built around Roy.

There are other non-centre examples.

But no examples of successful teams built around wingers.

Strange Brew · 08-23-2016, 05:21 PM

This isn't the NBA - you don't win with one great player and a bunch of filler IMO.

You need quality centers to win but I don't believe NHL teams are really built around one guy.

theslymonkey · 08-23-2016, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The 06-07 Ducks were built around Niedermayer/Pronger.
The 10-11 Bruins were built around Chara.
The 02-03/99-00/95-96 Devils were built around Stevens.
The 92-93 Canadiens were built around Roy.

There are other non-centre examples.

Ducks - Yeah ok, But Getzlaf was a beast in those playoffs.
Bruins - Bergeron, Umm? Yeah...
Devils - Brodeur, Not Stevens.
Canadiens - Vinny Damphousse and his 97 points say hello...

TheScorpion · 08-23-2016, 05:23 PM

^Textcritic: Exactly, because they don't really exist, it seems. I am stupid and was incorrect, and it was pointed out to me in a barrage of posts reaffirming these irrefutable facts. Moving on.

I cannot wait for this summer to end. Gaudreau needs to sign soon.

Enoch Root · 08-23-2016, 05:25 PM

Even Rocket Richard is a weak example...

Doug Harvey (the best defenseman ever, up to that point) was probably the focal point, and Jacques Plante was in net. Boom Boom wasn't bad either.

(not taking anything away from Richard, who is one of the all time greats)

Enoch Root · 08-23-2016, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

^Textcritic: Exactly, because they don't really exist, it seems. I am stupid and was incorrect, and it was pointed out to me in a barrage of posts reaffirming these irrefutable facts. Moving on.

I cannot wait for this summer to end. Gaudreau needs to sign soon.

Don't think of it as people piling on you, it's just something new to discuss

Gaudreauvertime · 08-23-2016, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctajones428

"As of today, Gaudreau is as good as Ovechkin" and "Gaudreau is as good as Ovechkin today" are two different sentences with two different implications

They are two different sentences with the same implication. If I wanted to compare Gaudreau to 2009 Ovechkin I would have not said "as of today". You're really on a witch hunt here, huh? Talk about grasping. . .

TheScorpion · 08-23-2016, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Don't think of it as people piling on you, it's just something new to discuss

Oh, it's definitely piling on. It seems like every time I post, someone replies and if it is a negative response it gets a million thanks, regardless of whether it is constructive feedback or insulting.

It's demoralising and makes me really not enthusiastic about participating in the discussion here -- and I know people will undoubtedly respond positively to this. This last string was pretty tame, but people call me out for being a "puck bunny" and a HFBoards-eque fanboy simply for having an obscure favourite player, referring to Gaudreau simply as "Johnny" (it's easier to type), and expressing my wish that he gets paid because I feel he deserves it and is a good kid. But hey, #PrayForJohnny, right?

I love constructive criticism (New Era is a great example of this). Make no mistake, this forum is awesome and it is super informative and can foster great discussion. But I can't think of it as anything ther than dogpiling when it happens as often as it does. Give me a chance, OK? I can contribute positively to this forum, I really think I can.