Did Kris Russell overplay his hand in free agency?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Locke

Pretty much.

Russell isnt garbage, he isnt terrible. He has his uses, but they are specific.

He most certainly is not garbage, he is a good NHL defenceman. He is not a great NHL defenceman.

If hes playing on your bottom pairing hes overqualified, mid-pairing? Good and solid. Top pairing? You're in trouble.

The problem arises from adequately compensating players for their contributions. You cant have mid to bottom pairing guys making first pairing money.

Except in the playoffs against Vancouver. Guy went in god mode during that series along with Wideman. In fact, as soon as Gio went down that year he was the de facto captain.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Except in the playoffs against Vancouver. Guy went in god mode during that series along with Wideman. In fact, as soon as Gio went down that year he was the de facto captain.

Great, and I get that, but the guy cant sustain 'God Mode' forever so he cant be paid like he can or the team is in trouble.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Locke

Great, and I get that, but the guy cant sustain 'God Mode' forever so he cant be paid like he can or the team is in trouble.

No, not saying that. I'm just saying he can elevate his game when he needs to.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

No, not saying that. I'm just saying he can elevate his game when he needs to.

Absolutely and thats fantastic, but the club cant 'elevate his salary' when its warranted.

You get what you get and thats the whole problem, Russell wants to get paid for his highs.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But this also takes up a spot that could go to a developing guy.

This statement is nearing the level of a cliché

If we have a solid prospect who can do well on the bottom pairing and play up the lineup in a pinch, leave the spot open. But if we're leaving it open for Wotherspoon? Who barely looks even relevant? Then what are we doing?

I don't think it's wise to leave a spot open when you don't know if you even have a capable prospect to fill it. I'd rather develop through AHL time and call-ups than hurt the team by gifting a spot to a guy who looked "the best" out of a bunch of unready guys.

[MoreDrank]

Originally Posted by MBates

I cannot figure out how people are prepared to trash Russell as being such a 'bad' (or insert other derogatory term here) hockey player. The guy made an NHL roster in his first try at age 20 after two World Junior golds, two WHL Defenceman of the Year awards, a WHL Player of the Year and a CHL Defenceman of the Year award.

As a pro he has played 29 games not in the NHL, 15 of which are in Europe during an NHL lockout (so those don't really count) and 14 in the AHL in his second year as a pro.

In 2010 and 2012 he played for Canada at the World Championship.

He only needs 27 games to hit 600 in the NHL.

If we cut the inexplicable trashing, Kris Russell is a phenomenal hockey player who has never stopped giving every ounce of his being when he plays since he was cut from Red Deer Midget AAA because he was supposedly too small for that league.

An NHL GM absolutely needs to approach a Russell contract carefully, and because of his size there will always be some additional questions about where he can be most effective. At any given time I think he is and always has been on the verge of his last NHL contract, while at the same time, he is also potentially on the verge of his best showing in the league.

I know technically this is the case for any player, but I think high potential and high risk of not meeting that potential in any given year is why there seems to be such a disconnect for Russell. It is because he is such an incredible hockey player that he nets a huge return at trade deadline and gets speculation of a UFA 5 x 5 contract as a 'given', all while his fancy stats look bad and he is only a few seasons removed from having cleared waivers.

The appropriate dollar value and term for what he can accomplish in today's NHL given his size and current age are completely legitimate things to debate. But people who call him a bad hockey player do not know much about the game of hockey or the quality of hockey players.

It is just as likely under a new coach and different system that Russell could have a career year as it is that he would make you regret having signed him.

I can understand people wanting to move on and not revisit him on the Flames roster but not on the basis that he is not a good player.

Did you watch him play in Dallas?

[MBates]

Originally Posted by MoreDrank

Did you watch him play in Dallas?

I followed his time in Dallas but a number of the games I was only listening on satellite radio as opposed to seeing them.

I think my post was pretty objective and said what I meant. Russell not contributing as much as Dallas clearly hoped he would when they traded for him doesn't change what I said. In fact it meshes with it.

I described him as a player with high potential and high risk of not meeting that potential in any given year. Wouldn't his trade value to Dallas and subsequent time there fully support my description?

Or are you suggesting his games in Dallas prove he is a 'bad' hockey player in spite of the successes of his I listed?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I like Russell, I really do. And if there are injuries it will be a great add for sure.

But adding anyone pretty much means Wotherspoon doesn't have a spot and with that he's exposed on waivers and could be gone.

Now that's not necessarily a bad thing if they're not that high on him, but the developmental side of me would like to see some roster progression from the blueline (or overall that aren't top 10 picks) and this just seems to make that difficult.

I have my doubts Wotherspoon would be claimed, almost every team will be waiving someone of his abilities and potential at the end of camp.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MBates

I followed his time in Dallas but a number of the games I was only listening on satellite radio as opposed to seeing them.

I think my post was pretty objective and said what I meant. Russell not contributing as much as Dallas clearly hoped he would when they traded for him doesn't change what I said. In fact it meshes with it.

I described him as a player with high potential and high risk of not meeting that potential in any given year. Wouldn't his trade value to Dallas and subsequent time there fully support my description?

Or are you suggesting his games in Dallas prove he is a 'bad' hockey player in spite of the successes of his I listed?

His games in Dallas are likely a significant factor in why no team has committed to him and while he may be looking at a series for short term contracts in the near future.

He may have been defender of the year in the WHL but so far in the NHL he hasn't found a tremendous amount of success and has spent time with 4 different teams at this point. Dallas had his negotiating rights as well as cap space and the roster spot to sign him but didn't.

Kris Russell definitely stepped it up during the playoff series and stretch drive that year but he was also on the team last year where basically everyone improved when they weren't paired with him. You gotta take the bad with the good and with Russell it's a mixed bag on whether one is going to balance out the other.

[Cactus Jack]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He's a 5-6 guy IMO. If he gets signed at 5-6 money, fine. But this also takes up a spot that could go to a developing guy.

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

However, I do think that Wotherspoon is ready for #6 minutes - though you would have to shelter him somewhat at first. Russell is definitely an upgrade today, but it comes with what I presume would be at least a 2 million cap hit - likely more (and maybe much more? No idea). Wotherspoon is cheap. Kulak isn't waiver eligible, but I think he is NHL-ready for somewhat sheltered #6 minutes.

Wotherspoon, Kulak, Morrison, Kylington, Andersson, Hickey - the first 3 are the guys that are approaching 'NHL readiness' (though more debateable with Morrison). You aren't going to fit all these defencemen on the team. Some are going to slip through, some won't develop, and some won't develop fast enough. Maybe Wotherspoon didn't develop fast enough. Kulak is coming up. I haven't mentioned Culkin - he was on the cusp before his injury.

Losing Wotherspoon in the grand scheme of things isn't a big issue. He could end up being a reliable bottom-pairing guy - but those guys are usually available as UFAs anyways. He could end up being more - could be a reliable top 4 guy at some point.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This statement is nearing the level of a cliché

If we have a solid prospect who can do well on the bottom pairing and play up the lineup in a pinch, leave the spot open. But if we're leaving it open for Wotherspoon? Who barely looks even relevant? Then what are we doing?

I don't think it's wise to leave a spot open when you don't know if you even have a capable prospect to fill it. I'd rather develop through AHL time and call-ups than hurt the team by gifting a spot to a guy who looked "the best" out of a bunch of unready guys.

We can all agree paying 5-7Dmen 2.9-5 MM per year under contract (Smid, Wideman and Engelland) is not ideal. I know they´re coming off the cap, but it´s been a while since a d-man made the team. I don´t care if it´s Kulak, Wotherspoon or Culkin, it´d be nice to have a grown and cheap option. I think the Swedes need moe time and I feel like Wotherspoon hasn´t been given enough to truly show his worth. You don´t need to be Bobby Orr to play 10 min a night on the 3rd pairing and make 500k - but it´s what the team needs. If we have Wideman, Engelland and potentially Nakladal and Russell on this team, we don´t give a young D a shot. Bottom line, let one of the earn a job in camp. If they don´t, then sign the vet for a year, but give them a shot. I´m tired of seeing long-in-the-tooth vets in the least important roles taking up big money on the cap.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This statement is nearing the level of a cliché

If we have a solid prospect who can do well on the bottom pairing and play up the lineup in a pinch, leave the spot open. But if we're leaving it open for Wotherspoon? Who barely looks even relevant? Then what are we doing?

I don't think it's wise to leave a spot open when you don't know if you even have a capable prospect to fill it. I'd rather develop through AHL time and call-ups than hurt the team by gifting a spot to a guy who looked "the best" out of a bunch of unready guys.

I agree with this. Treliving has said multiple times that competition makes everyone better. There's no way he's going to take the Edmonton approach and intentionally leave an NHL roster spot open for a rookie/prospect. They need to earn it. And if they earn it, he's shown he's more than willing to send a Raymond/Russell/Stajan type vet down to Stockton in order to play the better player.

Now with that said, I'm not sure Russell is the vet we want to bring in (I still think Nakladal might be the better more cost efficient option). But, if we sign Russell to a small money, one year deal with the intentions of playing him in a 5/6 role (and allow for a prospect to steal his spot), then I have no problem with that.

[FBI]

I'm pretty surprised Nakladal hasn't committed to anything anywhere yet.

[GioforPM]

I'm not saying leave a spot open for a prospect. I'm saying I'd rather not pay a guy $3M to play 5-6 minutes and the fact that a Wotherspoon, Kulak, Culkin or Morrisson if he has a comeback year might be able to fill the gap (or younger guys like Anderson or Kylington). I think those guys who would get a long look at training camp will need a viable spot to compete for. If you sign Russell for too much $ there's too much pressure to play him and the competition is weakened.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by FBI

I'm pretty surprised Nakladal hasn't committed to anything anywhere yet.

He wants a one-way deal or he'll play in Europe.

[polak]

Originally Posted by FBI

I'm pretty surprised Nakladal hasn't committed to anything anywhere yet.

He can make a lot more playing in Europe than he can in the AHL.

[Racki]

Regardless of how you feel about Kris Russell, how can you not love a guy that wants to play for the Flames so bad that he has put that in front of his own best interests? Now I can't say for sure that that is what he's done but it sure looks that way.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Racki

Regardless of how you feel about Kris Russell, how can you not love a guy that wants to play for the Flames so bad that he has put that in front of his own best interests? Now I can't say for sure that that is what he's done but it sure looks that way.

Fair enough.

[MarkGio]

Is Russell at the Flames camp?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Racki

Regardless of how you feel about Kris Russell, how can you not love a guy that wants to play for the Flames so bad that he has put that in front of his own best interests? Now I can't say for sure that that is what he's done but it sure looks that way.

It'shard to understand his thinking unless he really has no better options. It's pretty hard to believe he wants to play for the Flames that badly.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by MBates

I cannot figure out how people are prepared to trash Russell as being such a 'bad' (or insert other derogatory term here) hockey player.

Anyone who can play a regular shift in the NHL is not just a good hockey player, they're exceptional. The reason Russell gets dumped on is that he was overrated for a couple of years, being treated like a solid, legitimate top 4 guy capable of playing ~20 shutdown minutes against elite talent, when in fact he just isn't that.

If thrust into that role, he will be an anchor for a team. If used properly in a depth role, he'll be an asset to whoever signs him. Reliable depth D are important to any team that wants to actually have a season, rather than just rebuild. You're going to have injuries and you need guys who not only play in the 5-6-7 holes, but fill in for injuries too.

So the negative tone is really relative to unfair expectations that were placed on him.