[Rumour] Flames aggressively trying to move up. UPD: Treliving and Kekelainen meeting on floor

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by New Era

Run the numbers. Don't forget to factor in replacements for what you are losing. It's too easy to say that X is coming off the books and then not account for their replacement salaries. The picture isn't pretty.

What?

Wideman, Engelland, Smid, and Raymond are off the books next off-season. Raymond is dead space, him gone gives the Flames 2.2M pure cap - no need for replacement. Wideman, Engelland and Smid make a combined 12M. Even if the Flames go for a legit top 4, their "replacements" will likely be less than half that. There's ample room to sign Bennett next year almost regardless of his contract demands.

Bennett will also only have 2 seasons under his belt, unless he grabs the Hart Trophy this season, he's probably not going to be looking at the same range of contracts as Gaudreau.

I'm not convinced you've looked at the numbers here.

[Poe969]

demoting raymond only gives the team 925k in cap space, the rest of his contract stays on the books.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Sigh. Well, it was YOUR claim, not mine.....I despise when people do that.

You make a claim, back it up.

Anyways, like I said, next season would be tough fitting in Bobrovsky, but starting with the 2017/18 season the Flames cap is in a much better spot.

It's hard to look ahead that far, especially with Monahan, Gaudreau and Colborne deals still not done. But here goes.

1. Assuming taking on Bob while moving up to get Puljujarvi.
2. Healthy long term deals for Gaudreau/Monahan this summer
3. Decent bridge for Colborne this summer
4. Healthy raise and bridge for Bennett and Jokipakka NEXT summer
5. Hathaway, Wotherspoon, Gillies signed to cheap depth deals


1. Gaudreau (7,500,000) - Monahan (6,000,000) - Puljujarvi (925,000)
2. Shinkaruk (863,333) - S. Bennett (4,000,000) - M Frolik (4,300,000)
3. Colborne (3,000,000) - Backlund (3,575,000) - D Pribyl (925,000)
4. L Bouma (2,200,000) - M Stajan (3,125,000) - Hathaway (800,000)

1. Giordano (6,750,000) - TJ Brodie (4,650,400)
2. Jokipakka (3,000,000) - Hamilton (5,750,000)
3. Wotherspoon (900,000) - Andersson (786,667)

1. Bobrovsky (7,425,000)
2. J. Gillies (800,000)

Total CAP - $67,375,400

That's a crap ton of cap space to make improvements and add 13th/14th forwards and a 7th Dman. That's almost $6 million under the 2016/17 CAP nevermind the fact that it likely goes up again NEXT summer as well.

Flames add Bobrovsky (or any goalie for $7 million) and they won't be losing Bennett, Brodie or any core member because of it.

I appreciate your run at this but I think you grossly underestimate the salaries of players, especially Monahan and Bennett. You are also looking at a one year window, not considering the long term ramifications of contracts. You're using bottom end salaries for players that you hope to earn positions based on their play, but if they earn those positions based on their play they aren't taking a bottom end salary, so those costs are going to be higher. You also have seven players on your roster on entry level value deals. That is unlikely. I can't see the Flames relying that heavily on youth.

It would be exceptionally difficult to fit Bob's salary on this team THIS year, let alone in the future. We have $53M committed to 18 skaters right now, and have Gaudreau, Monahan, Colborne, Jooris, and Ortio to resign as RFAs. Then we have to do something with Nakladal, who I think can fit in as a long term low cost player, probably for less that $2M per for three seasons. So you trade for Bob and we now have a commitment of $60.5M and still have the RFA mess to work through. You can count on probably another $14M between Gaudreau and Monahan. Colborne is going to be a hit at around $2-3M. Jooris and Ortio will be $1-1.5M players. You're talking another $16M to be conservative. Even with Smid's LTIR cap relief we're over the cap.

You can have only so many expensive salaries on your team at any one time and the Flames appear to have come close to that level. They have committed to Giordano and Hamilton, and the will soon be adding Gaudreau and Monahan to that list. Bennett is certain to follow if he builds on his successful rookie campaign. You manage to get Poolboy and have Brodie in the mix and our big salaries seem to be spoken for. A big ticket goaltender doesn't seem feasible long term.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Sigh. Well, it was YOUR claim, not mine.....I despise when people do that.

You make a claim, back it up.

Anyways, like I said, next season would be tough fitting in Bobrovsky, but starting with the 2017/18 season the Flames cap is in a much better spot.

It's hard to look ahead that far, especially with Monahan, Gaudreau and Colborne deals still not done. But here goes.

1. Assuming taking on Bob while moving up to get Puljujarvi.
2. Healthy long term deals for Gaudreau/Monahan this summer
3. Decent bridge for Colborne this summer
4. Healthy raise and bridge for Bennett and Jokipakka NEXT summer
5. Hathaway, Wotherspoon, Gillies signed to cheap depth deals


1. Gaudreau (7,500,000) - Monahan (6,000,000) - Puljujarvi (925,000)
2. Shinkaruk (863,333) - S. Bennett (4,000,000) - M Frolik (4,300,000)
3. Colborne (3,000,000) - Backlund (3,575,000) - D Pribyl (925,000)
4. L Bouma (2,200,000) - M Stajan (3,125,000) - Hathaway (800,000)

1. Giordano (6,750,000) - TJ Brodie (4,650,400)
2. Jokipakka (3,000,000) - Hamilton (5,750,000)
3. Wotherspoon (900,000) - Andersson (786,667)

1. Bobrovsky (7,425,000)
2. J. Gillies (800,000)

Total CAP - $67,375,400

That's a crap ton of cap space to make improvements and add 13th/14th forwards and a 7th Dman. That's almost $6 million under the 2016/17 CAP nevermind the fact that it likely goes up again NEXT summer as well.

Flames add Bobrovsky (or any goalie for $7 million) and they won't be losing Bennett, Brodie or any core member because of it.

Personally I'd like to add Nakladal as the 7th defenseman, but otherwise, that's a very nice looking roster.

C'mon, Brad! Do it, do it now!

[Bourque's Twin]

Dumping Raymond would be nice, but it's not a necessity. He's only on the books for 1 more year and this season the Flames have enough room to manage the CAP.

Next year the Flames dump $16.07M of garbage. Raymond and Smid already don't play, Engelland can be replaced on the bottom pairing by numerous prospects on ELC's, Bollig can easily be replaced by Hathaway or someone similar who makes under $1M, and Wideman's role can be filled by Jokipakka or a prospect stepping up.

[BrownDrake]

Please just do a deal for Nichuskin and draft the best defenseman at 6.

Kylington & 54 for Nichuskin, RW solved, Dallas gets defense depth and pairs Oliver with his buddy Oduya.

Pick Juolevi at 6 if Tkachuk or Dubois don't fall to us
Sign Reimer at free agency or MAF for our 2 seconds (35 & 56)

Gives us unreal prospect depth at Defense if we pick Juolevi, great size/compete level if we pick one of the forwards at 6.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

Please just do a deal for Nichuskin and draft the best defenseman at 6.

Kylington & 54 for Nichuskin, RW solved, Dallas gets defense depth and pairs Oliver with his buddy Oduya.

Pick Juolevi at 6 if Tkachuk or Dubois don't fall to us
Sign Reimer at free agency or MAF for our 2 seconds (35 & 56)

Gives us unreal prospect depth at Defense if we pick Juolevi, great size/compete level if we pick one of the forwards at 6.

Ugh, no. Do not want Chush, and especially don't want to trade Kylington.

[FBI]

Man I just love Treliving's strategy of stockpiling a ton of draft picks in the season and using them as currency for the draft.. So many options.

[jmac98]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Ugh, no. Do not want Chush, and especially don't want to trade Kylington.

What is it you don't like about him?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by New Era

I appreciate your run at this but I think you grossly underestimate the salaries of players, especially Monahan and Bennett.

Add 2M to each, the team is still well under the cap. And that's with Jokipakka making 3M...Beyond this season, there's simply no issue with fitting Bobrovosky under the cap.

Originally Posted by New Era

You are also looking at a one year window, not considering the long term ramifications of contracts.

The following season you have Stajan and Bouma contracts off the books if you need it. The following season Bobrovsky is gone.

Originally Posted by New Era

It would be exceptionally difficult to fit Bob's salary on this team THIS year, let alone in the future.

There's 0 reason Jooris and Ortio are making that much at all. I think 14M is on the high end for the duo, at 13M it becomes relatively simple to be cap compliant without having to get creative (assuming Smid goes on LTIR). If the duo did command 14M, simply buying out Raymond would be enough to remain cap compliant. Other options exists as well, retained salary transactions for players like Stajan, Wideman or Engelland. If it meant getting a starting goaltender and a big RW with the third overall, Treliving would have 0 issues making that room.

Originally Posted by New Era

You can have only so many expensive salaries on your team at any one time and the Flames appear to have come close to that level.
...
You manage to get Poolboy and have Brodie in the mix and our big salaries seem to be spoken for. A big ticket goaltender doesn't seem feasible long term.

Bobrovsky's contract is over before Puljujarvi or Brodie would be looking to be reupped, so that's a moot point.

[skudr248]

Originally Posted by jmac98

What is it you don't like about him?

He has not proven anything?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

...We have $53M committed to 18 skaters right now, and have Gaudreau, Monahan, Colborne, Jooris, and Ortio to resign as RFAs...

Where does this number come from? The figures I get from the usual sources are:

Hockeybuzz = $47,917,067 for 14 players, which does not include Mason Raymond ($2.2 m)
CapFriendly = $49,767,067 for 16 players, with Bennett, Shinkaruk, and Kyllington on 2-way deals.
General Fanager = $50,636,231 for 17 players, with Bennett, Shinkaruk, and Seiloff(?) on 2-way deals.

Besides, your original typically melodramatic complaint was:

Originally Posted by New Era

Bottom line, Flames cannot afford a $7M+ goaltender. They bring in that contract you can kiss Bennett and Brodie goodbye.

How does this make any sense when (1) Brody is untouchable for another full year after the expiration of Bobrovsky's contract, and (2) the Flames are shedding +$17 m of cap space in the same year in which Bennett will be extended.

[jmac98]

Originally Posted by skudr248

He has not proven anything?

35 points or something in his rookie year. Then an injury.
Last year he only had around 30 points in his next (and really, second) season after recovery, but he's also behind a fairly deep roster of players. Like Drouin, he maybe just needs the opportunity?

[BrownDrake]

Nichuskin would be a 30 goal scorer playing on our first line getting 18 to 22 minutes per game versus the 3rd line plugs he has been with and his 10 to 12 minutes.

Dallas has depth at RW and poor defense prospects.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by skudr248

He has not proven anything?

He has proven more than Kyllington?

[Ashasx]

Nichushkin hasn't even been a 15 goal scorer, so I'm not sure why he would suddenly double his production.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by skudr248

He has not proven anything?

I see this type of comment all the time around here and it's such a weird way of thinking. With young players or prospects in general, you're supposed to go after them before they prove anything because the acquisition costs are sky high after they become all stars. Look at Shinkaruk for example. We got him for fairly cheap. He went on to do reasonably well after being put in a position to succeed. Now his value is higher. If he has a break out season next year, nothing short of a top 5 pick and a blue chip prospect will look appealing to Brad in a trade scenario.

I'm not specifically directing this at you, but the general notion that "I don't want player X because they haven't proven anything".

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

Please just do a deal for Nichuskin and draft the best defenseman at 6.

Kylington & 54 for Nichuskin, RW solved, Dallas gets defense depth and pairs Oliver with his buddy Oduya.

Pick Juolevi at 6 if Tkachuk or Dubois don't fall to us
Sign Reimer at free agency or MAF for our 2 seconds (35 & 56)

Gives us unreal prospect depth at Defense if we pick Juolevi, great size/compete level if we pick one of the forwards at 6.

Trading Kylington and drafting Jeolevi does not give us unreal prospect depth at defense - it keeps us pretty much even.

[Jason14h]

It's like people forget how much we were spending on goalies last season!

[BrownDrake]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Nichushkin hasn't even been a 15 goal scorer, so I'm not sure why he would suddenly double his production.

He's 21, playing 3rd line minutes, has scored 14 goals.

You don't think in a couple of years playing 20 minutes a night with Gaudreau/Monahan or 17 to 18 minutes a night with Bennett/Shinkaruk he can put up 30 goals?