2015-2016 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

Rogers are the richest owners in baseball, by a significant margin too. Teams mentioned like the Yankees and Red Sox and Dodgers all spend absurd money, but I'm guessing they aren't losing much, if any money at all. They also are unique like the Yankees in that they own the network that broadcasts games, which allows them to make more money without the middle man. Rogers, even when the Jays weren't winning, likely weren't losing any significant money.

We saw it last year with the spike in ratings and undoubtedly merchandise sales, the Jays can be the 2nd or 3rd most popular sports entity in Canada after the Habs and Leafs. Just imagine how popular they could be if they were a consistent contender. Yes, seven years and $217 million is a ridiculous contract and likely an albatross by year five, but if the Jays won even one World Series in those first four years, wouldn't it be worth it? All that extra money and support? Developing long term fans?

[kmart]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I don't think they are poorly managed... I think they were poorly managed but I think they all have competant front offices at present (at least as far as hockey, baseball, and basketball go... I don't follow MLS or the CFL to know about those).

Just because they have reputable names doesn't mean that they are well managed. Toronto sports' teams have lost a ton of big names and for unexpected odd reasons too. Look at some of the top names, Tim Leiweke and AA left on their own terms.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by kmart

Just because they have reputable names doesn't mean that they are well managed. Toronto sports' teams have lost a ton of big names and for unexpected odd reasons too. Look at some of the top names, Tim Leiweke and AA left on their own terms.

I think it's pretty obvious why Leiweke and AA left. The Corporate ownership structure doesn't allow them to accomplish what they want to as sports executive. Specifically Leiweke.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by kmart

Just because they have reputable names doesn't mean that they are well managed.

No, they're well managed because their managers are doing a decent job IMO (or at least improvements on prior regimes).

Shanahan and Co. (Lou, Dubas, Hunter) thus far look like a pretty clear improvement on the Burke/Nonis regime IMO, I think it'd be hard to argue that Masai Ujiri isn't a improvement on Bryan Colangelo, It's to soon to say whether Shapiro will be an improvement on AA but I wouldn't bet against him being better then Ricciardi.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, they're well managed because their managers are doing a decent job IMO (or at least improvements on prior regimes).

Shanahan and Co. (Lou, Dubas, Hunter) thus far look like a pretty clear improvement on the Burke/Nonis regime IMO, I think it'd be hard to argue that Masai Ujiri isn't a improvement on Bryan Colangelo, It's to soon to say whether Shapiro will be an improvement on AA but I wouldn't bet against him being better then Ricciardi.

Based on what? They haven't proven anything yet IMO.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Based on what? They haven't proven anything yet IMO.

On my opinion (hence the "IMO"). Which is based on the body of work thus far demonstrated, the reputations of those involved, and that they appear (in my eyes) to have something that vaguely resembles a plan... they're rebuilding so I won't base that evaluation on whether they're having current success but rather on whether they appear to be working toward future success (and IMO they are).

Edit: But let's keep this on the Blue Jays... I'd rather talk about a T.O. team I like rather then one I don't.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Rogers get a lot of ####, and probably should reinvest more in the team, but really they spend up there with pretty much any other team not named Boston, New York, or Los Angeles.

Going back to 2013 they have been around 10th in league payroll spending around $130 million.

Also hard for them to just bury money into the baseball team when it is counted as part of their media business and they have shareholders to answer to. I would love for them to go spend $200 million per year on player salaries but really it just isn't realistic.

Decent article here http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle26640038/

SuperMatt18, I think you misinterpreted the discussion in this thread. I don't think anybody in here doesn't understand how Rogers operates, it's been part of the discussion all along in here.

You just laid out what Rogers does that pisses off the fan base and stops us from being a championship team as if we just don't understand, so now that you've explained it we shouldn't be frustrated anymore. Trust me, everyone gets it, and it's why we're frustrated.

Yes they're a corporation and answer to shareholders and are content with a competitive team that's kind of in the picture, but not really, and no fan should be happy about that. Why would any passionate fan of the team go "Haha, no worries, I get how they operate, so it's okay"?.

Alpine nailed it. As an organization you can be thrifty, you can hold back from matching the Red Sox and Yankees in payroll and watch them sign strong free agents to make them contenders. That's fine, that's their choice, but then what's the point of giving up draft picks and prospects and semi building a contender and then stopping before you get there?

We were getting really close this offseason then they clearly decided to sign a 4th and 5th starter at prices that suggest management went "Well, we're not going to spend and be a contender, so let's toss our remaining budget at a couple strong bottom order pitchers and we should be a fairly solid team".

Then our rivals in the division do their thing, including signing an Ace that by all reports wanted to play in Toronto, and we have what we have - Likely the third best team in our division, so we'll probably be battling for a wildcard spot and there'll be a lot of competition.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Rogers are the richest owners in baseball, by a significant margin too. Teams mentioned like the Yankees and Red Sox and Dodgers all spend absurd money, but I'm guessing they aren't losing much, if any money at all. They also are unique like the Yankees in that they own the network that broadcasts games, which allows them to make more money without the middle man. Rogers, even when the Jays weren't winning, likely weren't losing any significant money.

We saw it last year with the spike in ratings and undoubtedly merchandise sales, the Jays can be the 2nd or 3rd most popular sports entity in Canada after the Habs and Leafs. Just imagine how popular they could be if they were a consistent contender. Yes, seven years and $217 million is a ridiculous contract and likely an albatross by year five, but if the Jays won even one World Series in those first four years, wouldn't it be worth it? All that extra money and support? Developing long term fans?

According to Bob McCown (who has very close ties to Paul Beeston), the Jays were hemorrhaging money the past few seasons. I think a lot of that has to do with the rumors that the Jays business operations were run like the stone ages and were way behind other teams with modern front offices. That's exactly why Beeston was forced out and exactly why the Jays went after a modern, progressive thinker like Shapiro.

There is a ton of potential for the Jays to make a lot of money, but I think that potential has been mostly untapped. Ideally, Shapiro can revamp the Jays' business ops and make the most of their unique situation of having a whole country to profit off of.

The problem with being owned by a publicly traded company is that the Rogers can't just throw money at the Jays and appease the shareholders until there's some raw data that says it will be profitable. Last year was obviously a great start, but that was one special year where everyone jumped on the bandwagon after being out the playoffs for so long. Can the team be profitable when the years the team is merely good (80-85 wins) and not great? That's unproven and that's exactly why it was unrealistic to see Rogers invest in Price for 31 million dollars for 7 full seasons. I'm sure that price was fine for the next year or two, but in 7 years who knows how good the team is? A private owner can take that risk, but unfortunately a public owner cannot no matter how much fans complain. That fan backlash can have an impact on a private owner, but shareholders of Rogers aren't going to be swayed by it.

[dammage79]

217 million is impossible to say no to. People can ride atop their white horse all they want but that sum of money will make you kill that horse and eat it for meat if they asked you to. I've gotten to the point whee I'm going to stop blaming the athletes for taking the stupid money offered these days. I know myself and almost every single other person would take that in a heart beat.

[Jiggy_12]

I can't help but laugh every time I see someone reference Price as greedy, or money hungry.

What planet are you from?

The guy worked hard his whole life, at the less than 0.1% chance of making his dream come true. Became amongst the best of the elite of the 0.1%, and now gets to basically win the lottery from a storied franchise and play the game he loves while doing so?

Yup. Pure greed. What a soul less human.

[bluejays]

Again, the issue isn't with Rogers not making an offer to him. It's a different process than the public knows. If Rogers, through discussion with his agent knew that he was going to get a ~$30M offer, they probably had discussions back and forth about what it would take if he did in fact prefer Toronto. What they thought he was worth was probably not in the ballpark of what he'd get elsewhere so he left. Why make an offer for the sake of it? Personally, I'm glad they didn't, as the contract would've screwed them for years later after year 4.

At this point I'm more upset that they're not trying for the second tier guys. Stroman as the #1 is simply not going to cut it. Same with the 4, 5 starters.

Without AA at the helm, I think it'll be the play safe moves the GM will be making. No ballsy big splashes, I'm afraid.

[Caged Great]

Apparently they are wanting a premium reliever but are only wanting to spend dollar store prices.

So basically, they are finished for the offseason with a junkball reliever or two being added between now and April 1st.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Apparently they are wanting a premium reliever but are only wanting to spend dollar store prices.

So basically, they are finished for the offseason with a junkball reliever or two being added between now and April 1st.

Agreed,

Starting Pitching looks fine, they are for the most part better than last season (except for the stretch when Price was added)

Bull Pen needs help, will be a problem

[Roof-Daddy]

So what does the entire pitching picture for next year likely look like then?

SP - Stroman (RH)
SP - Estrada (RH)
SP - Dickey (RH)
SP - Chavez (RH)
SP - Happ (LH)

RP - Sanchez (RH) -> Potential starter
RP - Cecil (LH)
RP - Hutchison (RH) -> Potential starter, potential minor leaguer
RP - Osuna (RH) -> Closer, potential starter
RP - Loup (LH)
RP - Schultz (RH)
RP - Tepera (RH)


EDIT: Barring future trades or signings of course.

[ClubFlames]

There's rumors of Blue Jays potentially pursuing Joakim Soria.

[The Familia]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

"Throw a ball" Yeah, what a joke indeed. They are doing a little more than "throw a ball". It's not like these guys just magically are the best in the world at what they do. They've been working at it since they were kids. The stars deserve what the market is willing to pay them.

Do you watch the NHL? Any other pro sport? Then who are you to call fans "mindless"?

Really? They do more than throw a ball? Oh I forgot, they can catch and some of them can run. In the grand scheme of things, yes all he can do is throw a ball. What contributions to society does he make other than throw a ball? It is entertainment not brain surgery. Is Price skilled at throwing a ball? Yes. Did he work at that skill? Yes. Should he deserve $31 million a year to throw a ball? No! My gripe is about our society and "market" that allows these ridiculous contracts. You are only fueling and endorsing that market. The owners shouldn't make the money either. Pro athletes should not make more than a million a year. That is fair compensation in my mind. Everything from tickets to merchandise is overcharged. I watch and financially support the CFL because their athletes make reasonable wages. In fact they may be underpaid. I do not financially support any other league directly with the purchase of tickets or merchandise.

[jayswin]

There's lots of great discussion to be had in regards to the business of pro sports but is this really the thread? There's tons of posters interested in the blue jays off season moves and a side discussion on how players make too much money is really annoying.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Really? They do more than throw a ball? Oh I forgot, they can catch and some of them can run. In the grand scheme of things, yes all he can do is throw a ball. What contributions to society does he make other than throw a ball? It is entertainment not brain surgery.

Do you watch movies? Do you watch TV shows? Many of these people make insane amounts of money and all they do is memorize and recite lines.

Sports is Entertainment. Entertainment is big business.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

I can't help but laugh every time I see someone reference Price as greedy, or money hungry.

What planet are you from?

The guy worked hard his whole life, at the less than 0.1% chance of making his dream come true. Became amongst the best of the elite of the 0.1%, and now gets to basically win the lottery from a storied franchise and play the game he loves while doing so?

Yup. Pure greed. What a soul less human.

Very few are blaming Price that I have seen. People are blaming Rogers for either not offering that amount OR pretending that they are willing to play with the big boys in the media but not really having any intentions to do so... or both.

[Parallex]

Yuck... 3.9M for Smoak? That guy shoulda been non-tendered not given a raise! Blah.